Ammo storage advice....

Though high temps, and large temp fluctuations, are less than ideal for long term storage, modern ammo is fairly stable for pretty long priods of time.
Look at all the ammo used in the mid-east that has been stored in steel shipping containers sitting in the sun.
A good old shooting buddy (now deceased) used to keep lots of his ammo stored in the trunks of a couple beater cars on his property (here in central Georgia, so it gets real hot, and pretty cold), and some of that was surplus military ammo that was already decades old, and I never saw any of it fail to fire.
If you've had it in military ammo cans, it's probably still going to outlast you. The stuff in spam cans would be totally protected against humidity,and if any of that is corrosive, that stuff tends to be stable for even longer periods.
Even stuff that's been sitting unprotected in the factory cardboard box will probably fire ok, as long as it hasn't gotten wet.
I would assume you keep your personal defense ammo inside the house, so that's what's most important here.

One thing I have found that is great for storing massive amounts of bullets or even loaded rounds is #10 cans. I probably wouldn't seal them (possible bomb type situation) but just use the plastic lids. They make boxes that are designed specifically to hold 4-8 cans tightly. You can then stack the boxes 2-3 high without any issues. You might be able to go higher than that but weight would probably be an issue.

I live in Utah where there are several LDS church canneries in my area. They sell all of the supplies (cans, lids and even oxygen absorbers) at cost. I don't know if you have one in your area but they sell to anyone who comes in.

If you are into food storage type stuff, they sell those same cans prepacked and sealed with staple type items as well (beans, rice, sugar, flour, wheat, dry milk and so on) also at cost.

Needless to say, I have a basement room full #10 can boxes, some with food and some with bullets etc.

hello. I've actually been collecting guns and ammo for 20 years and I never thought that I'd be in this situation. I have tens of thousands of rounds that have been in hot sweltering garage storage conditions for at least 10 years. I've moved several times and only kept a little of my ammo in "conditioned" environments. The vast majority has been in garage conditions for 10+ years. How do I correct this problem and save my ammo from being ruined by humidity and temperature extremes?

I'm talking 50 cal, 223, 762 ak and 308, 45, and 7n1 ammo.

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Shoot the stuff up and hope that none of it will blow up your guns. Heat is the absolute worst condition to store gunpowder, heat accelerated the decomposition of gunpowder.

I have written extensively on old, deteriorated gunpowder. While the collective shooting community is in denial about this, old gunpowder gets dangerous with age for a number of reasons. These are threads which I provided information on old gunpowder and old ammunition.

Old Powder Caused Fire!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788841


Old powder

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=787843


Shelf life of reloads?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758305


Look at the pictures in this thread:


Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264

The green corrosion inside the brass cases came from nitric acid gas outgassing from old deteriorated gunpowder. This nitric acid gas also attacks the brass causing case splits. When the corrosion is extreme it will cause pin hole through corrosion of the case. I have seen all of these. Gunpowder lifetime is unpredictable, a rule of thumb is 20 years for double based, 45 years for single based. Some fails sooner. Hardly any gunpowder is safe past 45 years. Old gunpowder in bulk will autocombust.

I keep my ammo in those surplus ammo cans I get from gun shows. The availability of these cans is getting less and less, but they are still there.

stchman said:

I keep my ammo in those surplus ammo cans I get from gun shows. The availability of these cans is getting less and less, but they are still there.

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What it's stored in doesn't protect it from fluctuating temperatures.

To the OP, if the ammo is corroded, I would not risk my firearms. Cut your losses and have it properly disposed.

Coyote3855 said:

What it's stored in doesn't protect it from fluctuating temperatures.

To the OP, if the ammo is corroded, I would not risk my firearms. Cut your losses and have it properly disposed.

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Temperature fluctuations have little bearing on ammo reliability. The biggest enemy to ammo is humidity and moisture.

anymanusa said:

... I have tens of thousands of rounds that have been in hot sweltering garage storage conditions for at least 10 years. I've moved several times and only kept a little of my ammo in "conditioned" environments. The vast majority has been in garage conditions for 10+ years. How do I correct this problem and save my ammo from being ruined by humidity and temperature extremes? ...

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Um ... bring it all inside? Says Mr. Obvious.

All of my milsurp ammo stockpile is either sealed in its original packaging (IIRC, 30+ cases/cans/BPs) or in my 100+ ammo cans (.30/.50(mostly)/20mm) ... in my basement ... which remains ~60°-80°F year-round.

Temperature fluctuations have little bearing on ammo reliability. The biggest enemy to ammo is humidity and moisture.

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Heat/temperature decreases the life of gunpowder more than any other environmental condition. Humidity is bad, exposure to any ionic compound will hasten the deterioration of gunpowder, but when it comes to stability tests, they use heat. Water is a polar compound but reacts like an ionic compound.



ROLE OF DIPHENYLAMINE AS A STABILIZER IN PROPELLANTS;
ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY OF DIPHENYLAMINE IN PROPELLANTS

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf

Nitrocellulose-base propellants are essentially unstable materials that decompose on aging with the evolution of oxides of nitrogen. The decomposition is autocatalytic and can lead to failure of the ammunition or disastrous explosions.

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Heat, as you can see in the report, will age gunpowder



Some may have problems reading a chart, but what this chart shows is that constant exposure to heat ages gunpowder/ammunition very quickly.


Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf




Gunpowder is a high energy compound that is breaking down to a low energy compound. Heat, exposure to ionic compounds, these all accelerate the deterioration of gunpowder.

I have some old ammo dates from the late 1940s, it still shoots just fine and Lord knows how that stuff was stored.

I keep mine in locked metal cabinets in my garage. It is subjected to typical summer temp changes, but it's not like it's in the sun. During really hot days (It was 100 degrees yesterday), the internal garage temp gets to the mid 90s. In the winter it stays around 40-50 degrees, with a rare day down to 35. My ammo has been there for years, but most is less than 10 years old. I took out some heavy loaded 12ga shells for turkeys this fall. I don't shoot much of that so what I have is probably 20-30 years old. I shot 2 shells this last spring and killed 2 turkeys. Ammo is built to withstand conditions that are very unlikely to occur for most of us. Keep it out of the rain and it should be fine.

I have a bunch of WWII 45 ACP and 30 Cal. Every once in a while; I shoot some and to date no FTFs.

Slamfire said:

Heat/temperature decreases the life of gunpowder more than any other environmental condition. Humidity is bad, exposure to any ionic compound will hasten the deterioration of gunpowder, but when it comes to stability tests, they use heat. Water is a polar compound but reacts like an ionic compound.



ROLE OF DIPHENYLAMINE AS A STABILIZER IN PROPELLANTS;
ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY OF DIPHENYLAMINE IN PROPELLANTS

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf



Heat, as you can see in the report, will age gunpowder



Some may have problems reading a chart, but what this chart shows is that constant exposure to heat ages gunpowder/ammunition very quickly.


Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf




Gunpowder is a high energy compound that is breaking down to a low energy compound. Heat, exposure to ionic compounds, these all accelerate the deterioration of gunpowder.

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After reading several of your posts over the last year or so about powder degrading I got rid of all my old powder yesterday. A pound of 2400, 3 or 4 pounds of 3031 in 1 lb cans and the remainder of a 8 pound cask of bullseye. These all dated back to 1980 at least, the 2400 was older as was the bullseye. The lawn thanks you and so do I. I did however keep the 2400 and bullseye cans, they are cool.

I have 400 rounds of 8X56R ammo that was loaded by the Nazis, that goes off first time every time, no hangfires, every shot kicks like a mule.

Which proves absolutely nothing, except whatever the nazis used for primers had a long shelf life. I have pulled random cartridges apart, and found the insides of the cases bright and clean with no sign of clumping or deterioration in the powder, which consists of grey colored square flakes.

These rounds were obviously stored under good conditions. Will I shoot them? Absolutely NOT! They are too old to be reliably counted on. It only takes one bad one to cause trouble.

I offer this only as an example of how long ammo can last if stored right.

And I hate to rain on your quote, OP, but several Hitler Historians have said that Hitler never uttered that phrase, or anything close to it. Charleton Heston was on Limbaugh's talk show years ago and uttered that phrase. Before the hour was up Rush got dozens of E-mails and calls from historians, and he corrected things.

After reading several of your posts over the last year or so about powder degrading I got rid of all my old powder yesterday. A pound of 2400, 3 or 4 pounds of 3031 in 1 lb cans and the remainder of a 8 pound cask of bullseye. These all dated back to 1980 at least, the 2400 was older as was the bullseye. The lawn thanks you and so do I. I did however keep the 2400 and bullseye cans, they are cool.

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I am of the opinion that all gunpowders need to be inspected and sniff tested regularly. About once a year is probably fine. When gun hits a neutral smell, it is time to shoot it up. Every can of powder that went neutral for me, I started having storage issues, where the case necks would crack on loaded ammunition, firstly on being fired,

This was loaded with Pat's reloading surplus AA2520 and was in the case 10 years.



Same powder loaded in a 30-06 case for 13 years.



Might have been mid nineties AA4064. I am having all sorts of issues with this lot and am going to dump it out soon.




Get rid of gunpowder that shows this sort of deterioration:



This H5010, when poured out of the can, was glumpy



I consider this a dangerous level of deterioration and even if the chunks were broken to the point they flowed through a powder measure, I would not trust the stuff and would be concerned that it might blow up any firearm it was fired in.

I have some old ammo dates from the late 1940s, it still shoots just fine and Lord knows how that stuff was stored.

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Ammunition that old, you are drinking alcohol , swallowing opiates and expecting nothing to happen. The greatest risk with that old stuff is that it might blow up your pistol. WW2 ammunition was never expected to have a 80 year shelf life and it was not manufactured with the expectation that it was going to be used decades forth.

There are lots of examples of younger ammunition that went bad. I recommend you pull some of those bullets and see if you have corrosion in the case.

This was estate sale ammunition, the boxes indicate 1950's ammunition. One case is showing pin hole corrosion from old gunpowder and when the bullet was pulled, corrosion on the bottom of the bullet. I would not shoot this stuff, I would pull the bullets, toss the cases, and toss the powder. I would toss the cases because I would fear the brass was deteriorated by exposure to nitric acid gas in the shell.




This is factory 1960's Norma 30-06. I sure as heck would pull the bullets and dump the rest.







Pull some bullets on your old ammunition and see if the bullets show corrosion.



Last month I disassembled some factory 30-06 of unknown vintage. I would say of the five or six cases, only one showed signs of deterioration. Bottom of that bullet was blackened and the inside of the case was dark. Some of the powder was red-brown. I kept the bullets. I just don't trust decades old ammunition given all the problems I have encountered with the stuff.

I am also not going to buy 1980's estate gun powder anymore. I have shot up cans that functioned perfectly, but you know, my hands, my eyes, my health are worth more than a bargain on old gunpowder. Basically I am not interested in gunpowders or ammunition more than 20 years old. I have shot cases of the stuff, and I have had plenty of pressure issues with old surplus ammunition. At the time I did not know why I was having high pressure indications, but now I know: pressures increase in old gunpowder. And old bulk gunpowder, that stuff will autocombust. I provided a link to a house fire above. Decades old gunpowder, if it is not outgassing or smell bitter, shoot it up immediately and get it out of the house.

The guys who took these pictures of their hoards of WW2 era gunpowder, they have no idea of the risk they are taking storing this stuff in their houses. Gunpowder does not get better with age, it gets more dangerous.

I was sort of a "living laboratory" for long term storage. Use this information for what it is worth to you.

I have been reloading since the late 1970's. In 1993, I was about to start loading 1,000 rounds of 5.7 mm Johnson (a/k/a 22 Spitifire) when I developed a neurological condition and I couldn't do anything in the way of reloading for 21 years. At the time, I had 1,000 rounds of brass was in various stages of preparation and storage.

In 2014 when I went back to resume where I had left off, what I found was:

• 500 rounds of unprocessed Norma .30 Carbine brass that had been in a Ziploc bag in 1993 were significantly and severely corroded. After tumbling the cases to remove corrosion that was confined to the surface of the case, I determined that 54 cases had been compromised and were discarded. A further 51 cases were borderline and were retained for use in setting up my trimmer, neck reaming, experiments with "chemical milling" and other stages of the process unique to reloading this wildcat cartridge that would not result in them actually being loaded. So, just piled in a Ziploc bag, I experienced a 21% loss rate.
• 100 rounds had not been processed but were stored in two plastic slip top boxes. 15 of them had corroded and were discarded. A loss rate of 15%
• 200 rounds had been formed into 5.7 mm Johnson cases. They had been stored in MTM plastic boxes. 15 of them had corroded and were discarded. A loss rate of 7.5%
• 200 rounds had been completed as loaded ammunition. They had been stored in MTM plastic boxes which had then been placed inside a military type ammunition can. Two had minor surface corrosion that was easily and completely removed by using Brasso. Depending on whether you think I should have tried to rehabilitate those two cases, the loss rate was between 0% and 1%.

I attribute the differences between the formed and unprocessed cases - at least in part - to some level of protection provided by the remnants of the resizing lubricant. From this, I concluded that storing cases and loaded ammunition where they are separated from one another and not touching and in a sealed container is the best thing I could do to preserve them. To hedge my bets, I also started including a small desiccant bag in each of the MTM plastic boxes.

Five rounds from the 200 loaded rounds were subsequently fired and they returned results on the chronograph comparable to rounds loaded and fired in the early 1990's. Still, my experiences are really only relevant to storing brass as a five round sample is not large enough to really be instructive on storing loaded ammunition.