Is factory ammo powder proprietary?

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BigMacMI

BigMacMI

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Or do they just use standard stuff?

I am shooting (happily) some 124gr Xtreme plated bullets loaded from 3.7 to 4.1 grains (depending on application/mood). Today I ran out of what i brought and had 1/2 box of Aguila in the bag. Shot it up. Notably more recoil. I was thinking of pulling one apart to see what they are running behind their FMJ. I run my FMJ 124gr at 4.2 which still shoots lighter.

Yes, in the future i plan on getting a chrono... especially before I head to any shooting matches that may require me to make minor PF. Just seems my Lee manual is WAY conservative. I have never noticed any signs of pressure... and for just plinking, that is fine with me.

Was just curious if anyone knows of any factory loads out there that are using commercial powder. For instance WWB using W231 or something?
 
Powder manufacturers make powders to meet the burn requirements of the individual ammo manufacturers. THe powder we use for reloading is called 'cannister' powder and made to be consistent in each powder type/brand.
You will not be able to determine what powder is used in your factory ammo by looking at it.
 
Small manufacturers may use canister powder. the biggies use "custom" formulations. Fiocchi uses square flakes for one of the calibers I pulled. Pretty cool looking.
 
Most commercial and military plant ammo is loaded with regular production powder lots. Charges are adjusted for velocity and pressure specs. Same powders are sold at retail, but different production lots are mixed to meet stricter tolerances for canistered lots sold to the public. That's done so hand loaders can use the same charge weights across several retail lots and have safe loads. Otherwise, a 4% to 5% adjustment may be needed.

It's easy to find out if ammo has the same powder as retail stuff. Run gas chromatograph scans on both; if they match, they're the same.

Weighing and measuring particles to compare will be close, but that's all.
 
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Bulk powders will vary more lot to lot than canister powders, and since most large ammunition manufacturers have ballistics labs, they're able to work up loads for each batch of bulk powder. You'll see this noted when surplus powders come on the market when they're listed as burning like "X" powder in this lot, but burn closer to "Y" powder in another lot.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
ReloaderFred said:
Bulk powders will vary more lot to lot than canister powders, and since most large ammunition manufacturers have ballistics labs, they're able to work up loads for each batch of bulk powder.
Click to expand...
In a early 1970's conversation with Lake City army ammo plant ballistics, they said they list 42 grains of IMR4895 in their 7.62 NATO M118 match ammo from the '60's for the velocity and pressure specs. Yet for each lot of powder they get from Du Pont, the actual charge weight can have a 3 grain spread about 42 grains for 2550 fps average and 50,000 cup pressure average. Lot 12064 had issues.
 
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"...the list 42 grains of IMR4895 in their 7.62 NATO..." May not be exactly 42 grains with every powder lot though. The ammo is loaded to produce a specific velocity range at a specific pressure. May be IMR4895 or it may not be. So is hunting ammo.
"...from Du Pont..." Not from DuPont for eons. DuPont's been out of the gun powder business since the late 60's, as I recall.
 
To sum it all up, ammunition manufactures may or may not use powders that are available to reloaders and there is no way of telling what they used by looking at it or weighing it.
 
Bart B wrote:
It's easy to find out if ammo has the same powder as retail stuff. Run gas chromatograph scans on both; if they match, they're the same.
Click to expand...

Now that you've said that, you're going to have people thinking that a gas chromatograph in just the thing they need to have a fully equipped loading bench. ;)

Wonder if the first one will come from Hornady or RCBS?
 
1K per day wrote:
Fiocchi uses square flakes for one of the calibers I pulled. Pretty cool looking.
Click to expand...

I did not know that.

I certainly agee that it is "cool". Thank you for the information.

When extruded into sheets and cut, I would think nitrocellulose would tend to have the edges "crumble off" even if it was intentionally square cut. You've made me want to go get some Fiocchi ammunition, pull the bullets and see for myself how they might have been able to cut square flakes.
 
I would think it is because the powder is cut "wet" before the solvents are dried out completely.... Just like extruded log shape powders are cut before they dry the solvents... I think the same could be said for flatten ball powders being rolled flat ... but I could be wrong too ....
 
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