Let's talk defensive REVOLVERS for bears...

Max P, in regards to your reply:
I'm interested in your choice of 480 Ruger as a recommendation for bear defense. I have a 45lc Blackhawk currently as my "walk about" gun. I've always felt it was adequate for bear defense with cast bullets. When I saw Ruger intends to release a 454 on a super blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8 inch barrel, I became intrigued with the thought of trading mine up, but I'm told the recoil is violent on the 454. In the name of full disclosure, I don't need anything larger than my 45 in the north east for bears.... I just wanted something bigger. Is the 480 similar in stopping power and recoil to the 454? Do you think shot recovery time is significantly longer than say a 44magnum? (Biggest revolver I've shot). Just curious about this round as a recommendation.

Oh man. I have not laugh out loud like this for a while. Thanks for the great posts guys. A late night great read!

Polar bear, Alaskan brown bear, grizzly, or black bear?

What kind of bear? That's like saying, what show do you like best?

There are many different types of bear.

Kodiak bear -- Tactical Nuke
Grizzly bear -- .44 Mag
Black bear -- .357 Mag
Kuala bear -- .22 Mag

What revolver has a big enough trigger guard for a bear to get his paw into? Find that revolver and there's the answer to your question.

I picked the .454 Casull. Its power level is a notch above any revolver I've shot, and I could sort of manage the previous ones. I think I could probably shoot the .454 with a bit of practice. If it proved too much for me to handle I could slip back to warm .45 Colt handloads, shooting them in the same gun.

That said, I am not happy with the idea of handguns for bear defense. It seems a makeshift. A 12 gauge with slugs is a much better idea, or a rifle in some stout caliber. If forced to the handgun expedient I would load for best penetration and hope to hit something important.

In just the last few years we have seen black bears on our property in SW Texas. On ATV's you never can get close and usually see them going in the opposite direction. I personally haven't seen one when I was afoot but my cousin, who manages the place, and a couple of our hunting lease holders have. For years, and before we started seeing bears, I've carried a S&W Model 25 45 LC on my hip with a SKS or AR on the 4 wheeler just because you never know what your going to come across. Other family members rigs range from .38 SP revolvers to 1911's and usually a carbine, cousin favors the lever action Winchester and Marlins, and some a bolt action rifle. Bears are a protected species here and no one, that I know of, has had to shoot one.
Automobiles and bears are another matter. https://www.ksat.com/news/photos-massive-black-bear-hit-by-travelers-in-west-texas I know a 320 lb bear is not considered "massive" in most places up north but it's big enough for these parts.

MPCO said:

Max P, in regards to your reply:
I'm interested in your choice of 480 Ruger as a recommendation for bear defense. I have a 45lc Blackhawk currently as my "walk about" gun. I've always felt it was adequate for bear defense with cast bullets. When I saw Ruger intends to release a 454 on a super blackhawk frame and a 4 5/8 inch barrel, I became intrigued with the thought of trading mine up, but I'm told the recoil is violent on the 454. In the name of full disclosure, I don't need anything larger than my 45 in the north east for bears.... I just wanted something bigger. Is the 480 similar in stopping power and recoil to the 454? Do you think shot recovery time is significantly longer than say a 44magnum? (Biggest revolver I've shot). Just curious about this round as a recommendation.

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Let me put up front that I have never been attacked/charged by a bear of any sort. I have killed bears (black bears) with handguns and have used revolvers extensively on big game and in a few sticky situations. I know what a correctly loaded big-bore revolver is capable of from a terminal effectiveness standpoint. Now, that said, they are difficult to master and some would be better off with a rifle in their hands (but try taking your rifle in your sleeping bag with you). Everything boils down to placement (and penetration).

I don't like the term "stopping power" as it assumes muzzle energy or some other inane measurement to be significant in the real world. I think the only true stop is a CNS shot, but I digress. I much prefer to shoot the .480 over the .454 as 48,000 psi tends to be more agreeable on the shooters hands and ears than 65,000 psi. The .480 loaded with a big, heavy slug at moderate velocities is fairly easy to shoot (with practice) and it makes a big hole. There's not much NOT to like about the .480 Ruger. I have both a 4 5/8-inch Bisley and a 6 1/2-incher and they are both accurate and a pleasure to shoot. I doubt anyone will get more than one shot off in a bear charge situation, but being able to control your firearm I believe is essential and having a bullet/load combination that will penetrate without compromise is also critical. The .480 is simply a great round that is terminally effective and relatively gentle on the shooter.

Here is the new shorty Bisley.



The 6 1/2-incher:

Well said Max.

460Shooter said:

Well said Max.

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Thank you sir!

For general bear defense, I would carry my SW M57 Mountain Gun (41 mag) with 250 gr solids. I often carry a much smaller caliber revolver in black bear country as I'm not all that concerned in reality. If I lived in grizzly country and spend time alone out in the woods (as I do), I would purchase a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger. I don't get too excited about black bears, but you need to pay attention. Have seen quite a few in the woods and they are USUALLY more nervous than I am if the distance is less than 30 yds and they are aware of me. It is that lone yearling male that you have to worry about and of course pay attention if there are cubs around. Often, you aren't really aware that there are cubs if they are small. For hunting, the choice is 480 Ruger (around 350 gr) in my BFR.

Added: I totally agree with MaxP above. Shooting the bigger bore revolvers takes practice in terms of hitting anything consistently. It is doable and the 480 Ruger loaded at normal levels is pretty easy to shoot. But it is still way more powerful than a 44 mag. I choose it because it makes a big hole and penetrates very well with solids.... ridiculous kinds of penetration like 4 feet....

With regard to the 454 Casull, I mostly see it as abusive to the shooter in normal sized revolvers unless you want to take shots at 150-200 yds. That is where the 460 shines in a big X frame revolver.

Would love to have a 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk in 480 Ruger. But, the reality is that I wouldn't shoot it very often, so it is just a want or money down the old gun black hole.

I have 454casul ,45long a Coonan 357 and a 60lb Shew clasic long bow.Happy and safe with any of them.I’ve also spent many nights and days in Alaska and all places below with no firearm.Met a lot of bears a little woods knowledge and common sense will do more to protect you than the gun.

I'm enjoying shooting my Redhawk chambered in .45 Colt with a 4.2" barrel. I'm shooting a 360gr hardcast WNFP gas checked bullet at around 1,125 fps, which according to QuckLOAD puts the pressure at a little over 40,000 psi. It's stout but manageable. I'd like to try a .480 Ruger one day.

Faive-hunert magnum, snub in an elephant hide shoulder holster.

I voted .357 because it was the smallest, but in reality I would carry my 9mm. The only bear country I’ve been in is national parks on the eastern half of the US where I sometimes see black bears, and I’m more concerned about people than I am black bears.

480 Ruger fan here.

Last time I actually came across a bear during a hike was about 30 years ago. It was a largish grizzly and it was about a mile away. The bear sniffed the air, gave us an indifferent look, then went on his/her way.

That was during an extended backpacking trip in the backcountry of the Canadian Rockies. Haven't seen one in the wild since.

I carry a 9mm Shield on most of my backpacking and hiking adventures. I've encountered more druggies and weirdo's than I have wildlife.

I picked .44mag, but frankly if I lived in the wilds of Alaska or just outside Yellowstone, I would carry a Mossberg 500 with 18in barrel loaded with slugs.

After buying a 329 pd I've decided that psi and caliber are poor indicators of recoil. The weight makes the gun almost unnoticable when walking all day. But the difference in recoil is.... Noticeable.
Owning x frames and redhawks I can, that to me at least, carrying them walking all day isn't very comfortable either, . But the weight makes shooting them pleasant.
Around here an above average bear is 450-500lb. I've put down much larger farm animals with a 10mm, so I either carry a 10 or 44 for my woods gun. The larger handguns are only carried for longer shots in deer season
As far as arming bears for self defense, most bear hunters around here (i have been once but didn't care for it) hunt with a pack of dogs, or take long shots with a rifle , so a revolver carrying 6 shots would be a poor choice. Although i never ran up on a bear I the wild that gave me the impression that he felt he or she was at a particular disadvantage and needed armed.

dawei said:

Let's talk defensive REVOLVERS for bears...

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I apologize, dawei, but ...
... every time I see this @SUBJ the first thing that comes to mind has to do with my doubt that a bear would be able to properly grip a revolver.

Sorry, I just could not resist saying something this time 'round ... my Silly Level must be a bit elevated this evening.

Here in California the Bears would be the least of your worries. The two legged vermin that tend to occupy our forests and deserts are much more likely to cause problems than the relatively small Black Bears we have here in Southern CA.

I have seen two bears here in my life. One was a Cinnamon one that saw us and took off for Kern County and the other was in our back yard and left a big dump in the middle. It was just a young one and I think it was lost as it was way deep in town.

Neither one of these animals was a threat of any kind. Neither one was even 100 lbs.

However, Latino Types in the back country here tend to either be Drug Farming or just feelin' Froggy, and they have to be watched very closely. I try to avoid them at all cost, but I also I have my G23 or G21 on the belt and I usually have my Kel-Tec SU16 in the top of my back pack, or handy on the Roll Bar of the Jeep. All of my Jeep friends are well armed when we go out and if necessary we can deal with those types of threats with no lack of firepower. Luckily I haven't had to confront evil alone, but we have ran into a couple of pretty scary situations in the deep desert while Jeeping and were able to avoid confrontation by just turning around and hauling arse.

When people get that far away from civilization they tend to think nobody is watching and they can do whatever they want. I actually heard some Mexican Kids at Glammis talking about killing some white kid because he looked at them wrong.

I would caution all of you that this threat is NOT going away anytime soon and these people come from a place which has little regard for Human Life. If confronted you should really think about Shooting first and asking questions later. They most likely will. Try watching "Queen of the South" on TV and see how the Cartels operate. If you pose the slightest risk to them they will kill you in a heartbeat.

I was in Mexico for our Honeymoon 27 years ago and haven't been back, we were n Cabo and I didn't feel even slightly comfortable there. The place is not safe and you white boys are a target. The fact that only criminals have guns there should speak loudly as to what is going on there.

The fact that one party in our government wants them all to come here is pretty depressing really.

Randy

CornCod said:

I picked .44mag, but frankly if I lived in the wilds of Alaska or just outside Yellowstone, I would carry a Mossberg 500 with 18in barrel loaded with slugs.

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I got in contact (email) with the Alaska Wildlife dept. I asked about their shotguns and what they used for bear protection.

Their answer. Remington 870s with Brenneke 'Black Magic' slugs.

That is what they use. They also said Foster type slugs were not penetrative enough and they don't use them.

Deaf

For the black bears that I might run into in the East, my .44mag 629 should be sufficient if they prove to be too feisty. My only real concern would be unexpectedly bumping into a momma w/ cubs.

I would be surprised to encounter a bear here on the ~180acre ancestral farm in VA but on my sister's & my 145acre farm in WV, not so much.

O'course if I am walking the wooded WV property I have a serious centerfire rifle slung.

Confederate said:

What kind of bear? That's like saying, what show do you like best?

There are many different types of bear.

Kodiak bear -- Tactical Nuke
Grizzly bear -- .44 Mag
Black bear -- .357 Mag
Kuala bear -- .22 Mag

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Kodiak bear -- 3 jdams and 5 HIMARS just in case
Grizzly--500 S&W wilth 350 JHP
Black Bear -- .45 acp
Kuala bear-- hug and kisses...