Subcompacts on the hip, how do you draw?

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Good Ol' Boy

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This isn't a right or wrong discussion just curious what other folks grip is on the draw for very small subcompacts worn on the hip.

Me, LC9s currently in OWB leather paddle holster carried with the safety on, middle finger and right ring finger getting a good grip while the thumb grasps over top of rear sight/slide. As I'm drawing thumb slides down and sweeps the safety and finalizes the grip, obviously along with the support hand.

I'm just curious what other folks do with subcompacts on the hip. Especially if you have big paws like I do. Obviously a standard type grip on the draw is not possible.


So, please share...
 
Kel-Tec PF9 most of the time. Same two fingers (of the left hand, as I am a southpaw) begin the draw; the thumb slides into place as the pistol comes up. Left index finger finds the trigger guard and assumes position alongside or within, as situation dictates. Support hand, if available, is coming to meet.

The PF9 does not have a safety, so the thumb has no additional duty other than to participate in grip. I do sometimes carry a gun equipped with a safety lever, but I do not use them, so I have not adequately trained to disengage them (most do not support left-handed use, anyway.)
 
I carry a G26 in an OWB kydex holster at the 2:00 position. I am able to draw the same as with a larger pistol, mainly because the GAP base plates ensure a good grip by preventing the fingers from sliding down off the bottom of the butt.
 
S&W Shield 45 in an Alien gear IWB holster at 5-530 position.

It's comfortable, and easy to draw. Sure beats carrying a 1911.
 
My draw (acquisition and presentation) is the same for small revolvers and pistols as for large ones, although I may not have to find a specific position for my little finger for the shorter gripped guns. My primary grip uses my middle and ring fingers, with little to no attention needed for my little finger, anyway. (I mostly try to simply keep it from interfering with my master grip.)

This also means that my draw is the same for revolvers as for pistols (whether or not they incorporate a manual safety functioned by my thumb), with the caveat that when I feel the curved grip frame of a revolver, my thumb curls tightly downward (staying away from the rear of the cylinder and the thumb latch). After so many years of draws I tend to think of it as a type of "pattern recognition", like when you grasp many other familiar things, like steering wheels (even of different sizes and styles), gear selector knobs/levers, etc.

I've trained and used both "retention" holsters (thumb operated snap or lever device), and "open top" holsters, for both work and off-duty, so I've spent a fair number of years ingraining the use of both types for belt holsters (then, there's also pocket holsters to add to the mix for me, for my smaller revolvers and pistols). Kind of like remembering whether you're using lace-up/tied shoes or boots, or slip-on loafers or boots, zippered boots, etc. You use all of them frequently enough, you don't have to stop and think about which one you're using, or how to use it (or sometimes even remember having put them on or off).

Interestingly enough, practicing a "dry" draw (EMPTY gun, and mags, if a pistol) is one of the things often discussed and recommended in various LE training venues, to make sure the users remain familiar with their equipment (and not just from the "wearing it daily" perspective). The draw is often going to be something that has to happen when the conscious mind and attention is suddenly focused on any number of other things, many of which may be both unexpected and imminently threatening. That's not the greatest time to have the opportunity to stop, slow down and have to "think about" how you need to draw.

This is also a great argument for commonality of equipment, particularly if someone hasn't done a lot of practice to become intimately familiar with their gear. I remember when a holster company used to recommend that new users of its L3 safety holsters perform at least 200 correct repetitions before hitting the street with the holster. A few years ago when I learned that it was now being recommended that at least 500 proper draws be done by the new user before the holster entered service. When you consider that some studies and sources have expressed the opinion that it may require between 2500 and 3000 correct repetitions for someone to develop familiarity with a new physical movement, it's probably a good idea to be as familiar and conversant as possible with your equipment.

It's also a good idea to inspect holsters for wear & tear and damage, and especially when it involves holsters for new pistols which incorporate trigger safeties, to make sure nothing improperly interacts with, and presses, the trigger during holstering. I've also observed more shooters than I can remember who slipped and let their trigger fingers get trapped by a holster mouth, being pushed inside a trigger guard ... or let an errant drawstring or corner of a jacket, windbreaker or fleece get caught up in the trigger guard during holstering.

Holstering and drawing (and remember that "reholstering" is really the same as holstering) are both dangerous activities when it involves a handgun. Kind of like being behind the wheel when the engine is running, the car is in gear and a foot is waiting to press a pedal. Better being paying attention to the important stuff.

People can get shot when mistakes happen, or when the wrong holster has been selected, or when a holster suffers damage or wear that makes it no longer able to be used properly and safely.

Drawing may happen quickly, but it mustn't happen so fast that proper attention to safety and manipulation isn't occurring. ;)

Sorry for the wordiness, but it's a habit to slip into trainer mode for seemingly simple questions about gun handling. ;) Like the punch line for a well-worn joke about handling a gun, with or without a safety ... "Is Gun. Is Dangerous".
 
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Reading this thread got me thinking so I decided to try it out. Before going out with my PPS I tried it while empty. I practiced drawing and slowed down. I carry my PPS AIWB and rarely at the 3 or 4 position, depending on what I plan on doing. AIWB is still pretty uncomfortable doing some bending/squatting. I grab my PPS the same way you do, with my thumb over the top of the slide. Almost all the way to the ejection port. When I tried to draw the same way at the 4 o clock with my full size firearm and holster, it wasn't nearly as fast or natural feeling.
 
The smallest I go is a S&W Shield-9mm holstered in a CompTac Flatline series holster which may be employed belt mounted or inside the waistband. The holster comes with mounting accessories for either or.
 
Strong side (right) with a Glock 26 9mm 3rd Gen out of a Galco Summer Comfort.

1. Violently pulling up the edge of the t-shirt or t-shirt and jacket up (exposing my belt and part of midriff) before drawing the weapon and pressing out with my left/support hand after letting go of the garment (once the pistol is clear) and having it meet in the middle before getting a sight picture and squeezing multiple times while moving towards cover.

2. Having an interaction go bad while trying to de escalate the situation and surreptitiously drawing with my right hand by using my right thumb to clear the shirt, getting a good grip on the gun with no cloth in the way while simultaneously talking and trying to get some object in between us to prevent getting bum rushed.
 
S&W Compact 9mm on my right (strong) side, concealed as a rule, although I live in an open carry state.

I compete in 3 Gun and Practical Pistol with M&P 9mm Pro Series which have the same basic trigger feel and grip as my carry gun, therefore drawing and firing with it feels absolutely natural.

Holster is basically the same as CompTac holsters which I compete with.

Pistol is held in by tension only.
 
I carry a G19 or G43 appendix mostly, but occasionally on the hip. Any holster I carry needs to let me get a firing grip immediately. I don't like to adjust my grip during the draw. My thumb goes between the pistol and my body as my fingers complete the grip.
 
I'm not sure I understand the premise here, I wouldn't draw a sub compact (or micro-compact) any differently than I would a larger concealed gun. Sure, I can only get 2 fingers on my P938 or j-frame, but other than that I have a full grip on the gun before I begin drawing it. I do typically have to lower the clips on my holsters for the small guns in order to raise the gun high enough above my beltline so I can easily get my fingers around the grip.
 
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