Kimber relocating

I don’t understand companies that stay in high tax states. And I really don’t understand gun companies that stay in anti gun states.

Why did you leave them in the first place? Quality issues?

Hokie_PhD said:

I don’t understand companies that stay in high tax states. And I really don’t understand gun companies that stay in anti gun states.

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It's ironic in my state of Connecticut which is politically anti-gun and highly over taxed there are probably more gun manufacturers than any other state. Ruger, Colt, Remington, Marlin, Mossberg and Charter Arms to name a few.

I don't know the specifics, so it's total speculation on my part, but I would assume that it's because these anti-gun/high-tax states throw a ridiculous tax break at them to get them to open up shop and create 100s of jobs.

Political principles and ideology kinda go out the window if voting constituents gain some attractive job opportunities.

Fiv3r said:

I don't know the specifics, so it's total speculation on my part, but I would assume that it's because these anti-gun/high-tax states throw a ridiculous tax break at them to get them to open up shop and create 100s of jobs.

Political principles and ideology kinda go out the window if voting constituents gain some attractive job opportunities.

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I honestly don't think that many, if any, politicians believe in the crap they are selling. They don't care what kind of laws are created that oppress freedom since they rarely apply to themselves.
Its a job. They might as well be selling used cars, then driving home in their leased BMW.

As I understand it.-----
In the beginning the firearms makers set up shop in areas that had good local supplies, ease of shipping in and out, and a good supply of dependable skilled workers. Now over time things have gone wonky but the industry has deep roots and infrastructure already there so it is not economically feasible to just move because the political winds have cast a stench over the area. I do applaud the ones that are taking a stand however.

stonebuster said:

It's ironic in my state of Connecticut which is politically anti-gun and highly over taxed there are probably more gun manufacturers than any other state. Ruger, Colt, Remington, Marlin, Mossberg and Charter Arms to name a few.

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While true to an extent, some of them produce some or most of their guns outside of their headquartered state.
Some of that may have to do with wages. But would some of that be due to those states anti-gun laws?

A well-run business will go with the best course of action to make the most money for their owner(s).

They can likely make guns cheaper elsewhere and still sell them for the same amount. This isn’t about them feeling any way at all about your rights - it’s about their bottom line.

Troy Alabama (where they are setting up shop) is only 45 minutes from me. Might be looking for a job when they open up.

Blkhrt13 said:

Naw not ever worked for kimber. I mean go back from south Louisiana to Alabama.

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I thought you were talking about some of their rifles and didn't like them. But it sounds good maybe more gun manufacturers will leave.

Wisco said:

A well-run business will go with the best course of action to make the most money for their owner(s).

They can likely make guns cheaper elsewhere and still sell them for the same amount. This isn’t about them feeling any way at all about your rights - it’s about their bottom line.

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Hence, why we are all replaceable.

It is a simple process for a skilled finance dept.; build a complicated cash flow model and plug in every cost factor (materials, labor, severance, transportation, taxes, tax incentives, cost of money, hurdle rate, blah-blah-blah) - then the model will spit out a number and then magic, the number tells you where to go and what to build. That is what all companies do - that is what Kimber did.

I'm sure that Kimbers cost accountants have been in favor of that move for quite some time. Then factor in the thinly veiled hatred of so many members of the state government who pretty much espouse all the NY city anti-gun rhetoric and I'm honestly surprised they haven't moved sooner. Another sad, related, part of this story is the fact that over the last few years NY state has spent something like 200 million dollars or so to air TV commercials saying that " New York is open for business" and "New York - state of opportunity" and such as part of a program to entice businesses to relocate in this state. That entire program has so far produced little, if anything, in return on the investment of taxpayer dollars when the results are compared to the investment. Some companies that have left the state even say that leaving was simply a business decision that had to be made in the best interests of the corporation. Move to a state where the cost of doing business is considerably less and the shareholders will thank you.

Trouble is most of New York is beautiful with its large gun loving population run by Albany and New York City politics.

Fiv3r said:

I don't know the specifics, so it's total speculation on my part, but I would assume that it's because these anti-gun/high-tax states throw a ridiculous tax break at them to get them to open up shop and create 100s of jobs.

Political principles and ideology kinda go out the window if voting constituents gain some attractive job opportunities.

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More like all of these gun companies started in those states back when they weren't anti-gun or high tax states. That was where the US gun industry was founded, and where the best machinists were located.

stonebuster said:

It's ironic in my state of Connecticut which is politically anti-gun and highly over taxed there are probably more gun manufacturers than any other state. Ruger, Colt, Remington, Marlin, Mossberg and Charter Arms to name a few.

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The industrial revolution in the US started in New England. That area also has an abundance of year round high flow rivers which is what most machinery ran off of back then. This also created a pool of workers familiar with machinery.

The anti gun stance came much later, long after all the NE gun companies had formed. Kimber is a late comer and probably got tax incentives from Yonkers, a somewhat economically distressed city which borders the Bronx.

CT used to be a pretty conservative state, doesn't seem like it so much anymore. Seems like even with the high taxes, CT is on the edge of bankruptcy. I lived there for 2 years, 2013- 2014 in New Fairfield. I was amazed at the taxes, property, income, vehicle, made NY look good.

Property, materials, and labor is probably a lot cheaper in Alabama, probably no unions to deal with either.

George P got it. I am no expert on the subject, but every history related article or documentary that I have ever seen indicates that the heart of the industrial revolution in the U.S. was in the the north east.

For example, Smith and Wesson was founded in Massachusetts in 1852. Sam Colt setup his first manufacturing in New Jersey in 1836.

Fiv3r said:

I don't know the specifics, so it's total speculation on my part, but I would assume that it's because these anti-gun/high-tax states throw a ridiculous tax break at them to get them to open up shop and create 100s of jobs.

Political principles and ideology kinda go out the window if voting constituents gain some attractive job opportunities.

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Not just tax incentives. Colt got a loan from the state of CT for zero interest. One of the most AG states in the US is passing regressive AG legislation on it's citizens and supporting gun mfg's to keep the jobs there. CT's economy is on the rocks.

Blkhrt13 said:

Kimber is building a bigger new facility and leaving New York for Alabama. This may be what it takes to get me to go back. Just saying. I wouldn’t mind working for kimber.

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Kimber is coming to Troy (about 30 minutes from me) and I'm thinking the same thing you are. I worked several years in machining and automation robotics (as an operator, robotic tech, and then plant manager) and my one issue with living here has been not much of a job market for that skill set. But with the news of Kimber I won't lie....I've been putting together documentation and am going to submit for a management position.

Remington is also coming to Alabama, in Montgomery.

I can see the HQ staying there but as others have said, it's hard to compete with other states where pay and taxes are X% lower. I am NOT going to pay X% for a guy simply to support a bad state gov't and union workers.

Walkalong said:

Moving, or just opening up a plant?

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Opening a new facility