.308 winchester bag vs. bipod and Hornady load data problems again

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TheDomFather

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Folks,
Once again I am finding significantly higher velocities with .308 win relative to what hornady says in their manual. Take a look at the attached and let me know why I see such a delta from what Hornady states. I have not had this issue with any other caliber and my barrel is only 2" longer than their test barrel



Thanks,
Dom
 
"First question..." --> Answer = you have a fast barrel, and velocities in the manual are nothing more than a guidepost... Don't put stock into the velocities, every barrel is different, and yours is obviously fast. For future reference - USUALLY a guy doesn't end up on the high side, as we typically fall short of realizing what's published in the rather optimistic manuals. Rarely, we end up significantly faster than published. I wouldn't be surprised if you slugged or gauged the barrel, you'd find it to be on the tight side. How was primary extraction at these max loads? Primers looking happy?

Concerning primer selection - you have a pair of 1.1" groups with WLP, but if you bogey your pushed shot on one of your F210M groups, you have a pair of ~.5moa groups from the bag... You have a lot of trigger PULL in your 6.5 creed groups, scattering down and left (assuming you're right handed), so I don't have any issue counting that 1.2" from the bipod as some shooter error - 3 shots in the group, one pulled a little, one pulled a lot. Fed Match primers are never easy to find, but they're never so difficult to find, nor so expensive that I'd tolerate the idea of hamstringing a ~.5-.8moa rifle with a ~1.1moa load... The WLP's are round groups, your F210M's are really clusters - although you do have a bit of that low left to high right trend across most of your groups, so it's kinda hard to put too much stock into assessing this board. But looking at your 6.5's with F210M's against the rest of the board, I'd find as many Federals as I could and pay whatever they cost, and would sell the rifle before I settled for the WLP loads.

If I ignore the likelihood your low left to high right pattern is probably shooter error, just looking at groups, your 308win wants more powder. A lot of vertical in those groups, and irregularity. Either you're bouncing your bipod and not getting stable on the bag, or you're not in the node and your rifle wants more powder. I think I heard you mention these were max loads, so you might have to cut off a bit to get to a lower node instead.

But again - honestly, it really seems like you're most likely either not letting your barrel cool long enough, OR you're bouncing on your follow through to induce vertical with your 308win.

Has anyone else fired groups from these rifles?
 
"First question..." --> Answer = you have a fast barrel, and velocities in the manual are nothing more than a guidepost... Don't put stock into the velocities, every barrel is different, and yours is obviously fast. For future reference - USUALLY a guy doesn't end up on the high side, as we typically fall short of realizing what's published in the rather optimistic manuals. Rarely, we end up significantly faster than published. I wouldn't be surprised if you slugged or gauged the barrel, you'd find it to be on the tight side. How was primary extraction at these max loads? Primers looking happy?

Concerning primer selection - you have a pair of 1.1" groups with WLP, but if you bogey your pushed shot on one of your F210M groups, you have a pair of ~.5moa groups from the bag... You have a lot of trigger PULL in your 6.5 creed groups, scattering down and left (assuming you're right handed), so I don't have any issue counting that 1.2" from the bipod as some shooter error - 3 shots in the group, one pulled a little, one pulled a lot. Fed Match primers are never easy to find, but they're never so difficult to find, nor so expensive that I'd tolerate the idea of hamstringing a ~.5-.8moa rifle with a ~1.1moa load... The WLP's are round groups, your F210M's are really clusters - although you do have a bit of that low left to high right trend across most of your groups, so it's kinda hard to put too much stock into assessing this board. But looking at your 6.5's with F210M's against the rest of the board, I'd find as many Federals as I could and pay whatever they cost, and would sell the rifle before I settled for the WLP loads.

If I ignore the likelihood your low left to high right pattern is probably shooter error, just looking at groups, your 308win wants more powder. A lot of vertical in those groups, and irregularity. Either you're bouncing your bipod and not getting stable on the bag, or you're not in the node and your rifle wants more powder. I think I heard you mention these were max loads, so you might have to cut off a bit to get to a lower node instead.

But again - honestly, it really seems like you're most likely either not letting your barrel cool long enough, OR you're bouncing on your follow through to induce vertical with your 308win.

Has anyone else fired groups from these rifles?
Thanks for the info my groups are definitely me screwing them up with my trigger pull. The Varget loads are at max published 36.4 grains but the primers look fine and there is probably more case room to go but I’m going to with H4350 instead I was just wrapping up a test with that last load as varget was very accurate just not as high velocities as H4350. The CFE 223 in my .308 scared me a little. I need a lot more practice. I’m self taught so no one else to blame and I have not adjusted the triggers at all on either rifle from the factory setting. I’m thinking lightening the pull make help ???
 
The CFE 223 in my .308 scared me a little.

In my rifles CFE runs fast. It seems to be accurate across the board, but is temp sensitive.
If you try watching where your crosshairs are when the trigger breaks it will tell you if the flyers are you or the combination.
 
I too agree with the WLR primers being too much in that size case & the powders your using . If you don't want to pay for the Fed Match try the Rem 9 1/2 . I believe you'll see the difference .
 
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