Going with the lightest published charged for plinking ammo

Walkalong said:

The velocity loss with the powder away from the primer might surprise you.

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I shorten the brass for the really light loads to lessen this concern. I found some CBC 'C' headstamp 38 special brass at the range that is only 19mm long, creating the equivalent of a 38 short colt. I've been loading it with 2.8gr. of Titegroup and a 125gr. plated bullet for just over 600fps and no worries about sticking a bullet. I've cut off and trimmed some regular 38 special brass to 19mm length for this use, but you can also buy 38 short colt brass from Starline.

A couple of points in addition to the many excellent ones made above:

1) A comparatively small subset of shooters are capable of detecting any difference between an optimal pistol load and one that is, say, .2 or .5 grains away. Very, very few people can shoot with enough accuracy for meaningful differences to be found. The OP may be one of them. Most are not. And those who can are rarely primarily "plinking."

2) There is minimum data and then there is start data. Many, many people erroneously assume that the two are synonymous. In most straight-walled pistol applications, they are not. Exceptions do exist, and magnum cartridges are where some of them are found, particularly with the hard to ignite ball powders such as H110. But with those powders aside, you can absolutely go below the starting load. Your main risks are sticking a bullet in the barrel, and/or lousy SD due to inconsistent burning and/or extra dirty fouling due to the same thing. But sticking a bullet is a function of velocity, and there's a LONG way between start-load-44-mag velocity and stick-a-bullet velocity!

ray15 said:

I found some CBC 'C' headstamp 38 special brass at the range that is only 19mm long, creating the equivalent of a 38 short colt.

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It sounds like somebody was trying to make a rimmed 9mm Luger for a revolver....?

ATLDave said:

A couple of points in addition to the many excellent ones made above:

1) A comparatively small subset of shooters are capable of detecting any difference between an optimal pistol load and one that is, say, .2 or .5 grains away. Very, very few people can shoot with enough accuracy for meaningful differences to be found. The OP may be one of them. Most are not. And those who are rarely primarily "plinking."

2) There is minimum data and then there is start data. Many, many people erroneously assume that the two are synonymous. In most straight-walled pistol applications, they are not. Exceptions do exist, and magnum cartridges are where some of them are found, particularly with the hard to ignite ball powders such as H110. But with those powders aside, you can absolutely go below the starting load. Your main risks are sticking a bullet in the barrel, and/or lousy SD due to inconsistent burning and/or extra dirty fouling due to the same thing. But sticking a bullet is a function of velocity, and there's a LONG way between start-load-44-mag velocity and stick-a-bullet velocity!

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Yes yes and yes to all of this.

walnut1704 said:

It sounds like somebody was trying to make a rimmed 9mm Luger for a revolver....?

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That's relatively common among competitive USPSA/IPSC shooters. Any .355 or .357 or .38 bullet is going to get minor scoring from a revolver, so the velocity needs are pretty modest. Extra case length just adds time to the unloading/reloading time, which is a very material consideration in the racing gun games. Until S&W came out with the 929, the most common 8-shot competition revolver setup was a 627 chambered in 357 with moonclips holding .38 short (or .38 special cartridges cut down to around that length) brass.

Walkalong said:

If you are not testing the load with the powder forward to see if it will get out of the barrel 100% of the time, you don't know if it is safe or not. Hold the muzzle down, slowly bring it up level, then fire it over the chrono. Do this for a cylinder full. The velocity loss with the powder away from the primer might surprise you. Some powders are better than others. Lead loses less than jacketed or plated. Lead is the best for really light loads, but safe ones can be had with plated or jacketed. I use plated over jacketed though, why waste jacketed.

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I usually do my powder forward/rear test by doing as you say for the first 3 rounds (powder forward), then repeat but with the barrel pointing up to start with (powder rear). I have seen as much as 300fps difference between the two with some powders.

walnut1704 said:

It sounds like somebody was trying to make a rimmed 9mm Luger for a revolver....?

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It's actually been pretty popular as a training round for revolver-equipped police in Brazil since the early '90s. They are often referred to as a 'T' round for this reason. Magtech is the only maker I know to market them in the States. Everybody seems to be out of them at present, but TargetSportsUSA had stock recently.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...ial-short-125-grain-lead-round-nose-box-of-50

walnut1704 said:

It sounds like somebody was trying to make a rimmed 9mm Luger for a revolver....?

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I should also point out that the factory loading is a 125gr. LRN at 686fps. Ballistically it's a ~8,000psi 38 special, not a 35,000psi 9mm Luger equivalent. I've played with loading it to ~17,000psi, the non +p 38 special limit, and it gets there with roughly a full grain less powder than when using the full-length case. I'm still searching for standard deviations as low as a larger charge of Titegoup produces in the full-length case, though.

ray15 said:

I should also point out that the factory loading is a 125gr. LRN at 686fps. Ballistically it's a ~8,000psi 38 special, not a 35,000psi 9mm Luger equivalent. I've played with loading it to ~17,000psi, the non +p 38 special limit, and it gets there with roughly a full grain less powder than when using the full-length case. I'm still searching for standard deviations as low as a larger charge of Titegoup produces in the full-length case, though.

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How's the accuracy?

walnut1704 said:

How's the accuracy?

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I've been loading 2.8gr. of Titegroup, and it's accurate enough for plinking. I don't have any problem hitting 9" plates at 25 yards, and the groups at about 15 yards are as good as I am (a couple of inches offhand with iron sights).

In testing that load produced 616fps a Sd of 42.7. A 3.0gr. charge of Titegroup equaled the factory velocity at 687fps, and the Sd dropped to 22.9. 3.6gr. produced just over 900fps and a Sd of 28. I'll test those loads for accuracy the next time I go to the range.

By comparison 5.0gr. (the +p max) of Titegroup in a full length case makes 971fps and a Sd of 12. It's pretty darn accurate and surprisingly powerful.

All these loads use CCI SPP and the xtreme 125gr. .357" plated HP at an OAL of 1.05" in the short case and 1.425" in the standard one.

Point_Taken said:

So when I'm reloading my .44 mag (and 9mm, .223) for that mater and all I care about doing is plinking, I typically go with something .1-.2 over the minimum charge to save on powder.

Is there something inherently wrong with this line of thinking or am I fine and most other reloaders do the same thing?

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What is plinking and what would one normally use to do it? How does one plink with a 44 Magnum? Do you chop down a tree with a few rounds? None of my 357 or 44 Magnums is a big enough gun for much full power shooting to any extent that one would call fun, so most of my magnum shooting is somewhere in the plinking range. However, before I try to remove all the challenge of recoil I change to a gun of a lower power, say 38 Special or 44 Special. My magnums are still what I would call a magnum experience. It is still a game of trying not to flinch.

RealGun said:

What is plinking and what would one normally use to do it? How does one plink with a 44 Magnum? Do you chop down a tree with a few rounds? None of my 357 or 44 Magnums is a big enough gun for much full power shooting to any extent that one would call fun, so most of my magnum shooting is somewhere in the plinking range. However, before I try to remove all the challenge of recoil I change to a gun of a lower power, say 38 Special or 44 Special. My magnums are still what I would call a magnum experience. It is still a game of trying not to flinch.

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Pretty much how I feel. If I want to plink, I'll shoot a 9mm, or my Ruger GP100 with light loads. I guess if the only gun you have is a 44mag, then maybe plinking loads make sense. For me, if I pull out my 44mag, I want the magnum experience.

I started out with a slight fear of reloading so i wouldn't go anywhere near max or much over medium charge. I actually found a very accurate load with my favorite rifle powder about a grain over the start load and several grains below max. Win-Win, I get accuracy and also save powder but one think i notice i was running into was shooting varmints it didn't have the speed to explode the round and I would get some runners therefore, I will now load everything to my middle of the road charge that also gives me the accuracy. It was just way too much to keep track of what was a target load and what was a hunting load seeing how i use the same bullet for both. If i was just shooting up paper with an AR i would still go for an accurate load. To me "plinking" means being able to actually hit something like a golf ball, shotgun clay, tin can, etc so i would want something at least a little accurate.

For 9mm i would just load what gave me reliability but now i'm going to get into shooting sports so its accuracy now.

Agree with several others. Most powders do not like to be run at their lower limit. Better to use a faster powder which requires less weight charge and run it at least mid-range. One reason powders like Red Dot and Bullseye are popular for plinking and bullseye shooting. Haven't tried TrailBoss but it was designed specifically for light cowboy action loads.

Lots of good advice here, and in answer to the OP's question, yes, you can shoot minimum listed loads safely.

But one of the reasons I like to shoot and reload for revolvers is that I can really broaden the power range. To do this effectively, though, you need to use different powders for various power levels. I shoot lots of 240 grain Keith-style SWCs out of my .44s.

For "plinking," I use Trail Boss powder. TB provides very mild loads with good case fill. In fact, that's what the powder was designed for.
For intermediate power, I use Unique. Unique bridges the gap nicely between "light" .44 Special to "light" .44 Magnum power.
For full-power magnum loads, I use 2400. Now your talking stiff magnum power suitable for hunting.

So yes, you can load at the low end of the published load data. But you can go below that power and recoil wise by using a different powder. As I've posted elsewhere, Trail Boss, Unique, and 2400 work equally well in the .357 magnum.

RealGun said:

What is plinking and what would one normally use to do it? How does one plink with a 44 Magnum? Do you chop down a tree with a few rounds? None of my 357 or 44 Magnums is a big enough gun for much full power shooting to any extent that one would call fun, so most of my magnum shooting is somewhere in the plinking range. However, before I try to remove all the challenge of recoil I change to a gun of a lower power, say 38 Special or 44 Special. My magnums are still what I would call a magnum experience. It is still a game of trying not to flinch.

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Pinking can only be associated (correctly) with rimfire or perhaps BB and Pellet guns.

Plink Goes the Can, but most cans are aluminum now rather than plinking steel or tin cans.

I love "need some plinking loads" for my 460 SW Mag and 500 Mag.

Rule3 said:

I love "need some plinking loads" for my 460 SW Mag and 500 Mag.

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I actually did try some reduced loads for my 460, but then I reminded myself of why I bought the 460.

I noticed two posts that referred to Trailboss as "designed for light loads". I think it is more accurate that it loads like black powder volume, since you can get some pretty good performance from Trailboss as well as black powder.

From Hodgdon's website:

Trail Boss was designed specifically for low-velocity lead bullets suitable for Cowboy Action shooting.

It is primarily a pistol powder but has some application in rifles.

Trail Boss is based on new technology that allows very-high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in severe temperature variation, and, most importantly, additional safety to the handloader.

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https://www.hodgdon.com/trail-boss/

I'm afraid of squib loads, so I generally start in the middle between min and max loads. Then move up or down accordingly,.

Legionnaire said:

From Hodgdon's website:


https://www.hodgdon.com/trail-boss/

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Yet their load data shows a diversity of applications and performance levels.

I won't argue the point. I do a lot with TB, not just run light loads. What it was designed for and how it is used are not contradictory.

Legionnaire said:

I won't argue the point. I do a lot with TB, not just run light loads. What it was designed for and how it is used are not contradictory.

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I think you are right, since Hodgdon data consistently shows that the real correlation is between lead bullets and Trailboss application. They might say it was developed for cowboy loads, but that translates to lead bullets. I saw no data for other than lead for Trailboss in a cursory review of Hodgdon data. I would note though that some of the loads are pushing well beyond what a CAS loader would likely use, and the 125 grain lead load for 357 was over the SASS handgun limit of 1000 fps.

Every try Trailboss? Guys that shoot Cowboy with a 44 mag use it, they load it as light as possible to minimize recoil, plus its near impossible to double charge a case an not notice it.