RAF mystery revolver (no pictures, just text)

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4v50 Gary

4v50 Gary

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I'm reading Richard Hillary's The Last Enemy, a WW II Spitfire pilot's book. On page 63 he wrote:

"An order came that all officers were to carry side arms, and at the station armoury I was issued with an anitquated shortnose Forty-five and six soft-lead bullets. I appealed to armament sergeant.

'Sorry, sir,' he said, 'but that's the regulation. Just content yourself with six Jerries, sir.'

That in itself would not have been so bad if only the ammunition fitted, which I soon found out it did not. With only six bullets there was little temptation to waste any of the practising, but one day by low cunning I managed to get myself another twelve and loosed off. The first round fired but the second jammed. I had .455 bullets for a .45 revolver."
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I'm thinking S&W or Colt as we supplied them in WW I, but was unaware that 2" barrel revolvers were supplied. Thoughts?

BTW, Hillary did not survive the war.
 
Not enough information.
With efforts such as the Lend/Lease program the British were armed with a plethora of such weaponry during WWII.
The gun mentioned could also have been one of various BullDogs manufactured by any of numerous domestic shops.
The ammo could have been .45 Schofield, “Long”Colt, .45acp, etc.
No specifics as to how it “didn’t fit”.
 
It's been suggested by others that it could be a Webley Bulldog in .450 Adams
 
I do not think there is sufficient information in the text quoted to make a sure determination as to what he had. Unless there is some further info somewhere to be found, or a picture, or a museum or collection somewhere has his gun, I think we are at a dead end.
 
Probably not surprising that a Spitfire pilot in those days was issued an antiquated revolver with the wrong ammo. It wasn't a high priority and the probability of having to use it was pretty low.
 
Pilot has been dead since '43. He managed to get his flight status restored and then crashed his Blenheim on a night training mission. I wonder if the records will show what he was issued?
 
Keep in mind at the time of the Battle of Britain they had scrounged all kinds of firearms for the military and Home Guard. The British were preparing for a German invasion and a lot of their weapons were left on the beaches at Dunkirk. Issuing a variety of different pistols to RAF fighter pilots made sense as they had less likelihood of needing them. If a fighter pilot was shot down he most likely got shot down over England at that time.
 
Sovblocgunfan said:
may also have been part of the call for arms to "defend British homes". Privately owned firearms were "loaned" to them by normal citizens of the US with the misunderstanding that they'd be returned. Sadly, the vast majority of them were not. It is very possible these were also issued in secondary roles.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...thursday-send-a-gun-to-defend-a-british-home/

Ref pg 32-33 and 41-43 of this magazine:

http://jeffersonian.name/g1959/G1259.pdf
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Yes, in that light, "an antiquated shortnose Forty-five" could be nearly anything.
 
I believe .455 was in secondary service by WWII. The Enfield No.2 was chambered in .380-200 and adopted in the late twenties or early thirties if I recall. This could be fun to research. I have one No. 2* in my collection, so I haven't gone much beyond that in my reading. I am also wondering just how much the pilot actually knew about handguns.
 
I think we should understand that the author was probably not an expert on firearms. When he says ".45" he could well mean ".455" which is identical to the .45 Colt except for a much shorter case and a thinner rim.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
I think we should understand that the author was probably not an expert on firearms. When he says ".45" he could well mean ".455" which is identical to the .45 Colt except for a much shorter case and a thinner rim.
Click to expand...

He says he had .455 rounds for a .45. Combined with the 'shortnosed' description and the fact the rounds jammed the gun (prob. too long), I'm thinking his gun was a .450.
 
I agree. Most likely a British Bulldog(not necessarily Webley) in .450 adams and the supplied incorrect ammunition mkII or mkVI .455 Webley which is longer. I reckon anyway.
 
GRIZ22 said:
... If a fighter pilot was shot down he most likely got shot down over England at that time.
Click to expand...

For my uncle (a Texan flying for the RAF) it happened twice. Even though off topic, I'll tell one story. During the Battle of Britain, he and two others were coming in for a landing after a scrap. They had lowered their undercarriages and were lined up to land. Meanwhile a German pilot whose engine had been shot up and was stopped was coming in for a landing behind them. Before he landed his dead-stick plane, the German shot down my uncle and the other two planes. Nobody was hurt, but their planes were torn up. He said they (and the German) had drinks in the officer's club before sending him to the prison camp.

To jump back on topic, he carried a S&W BSR with the RAF and a S&W Victory model when later in the war was flying P38s for the USAAF in the South Pacific.
 
One of the great advantages the British had in the Battle of Britain was that British planes forced down went down in friendly territory. The pilots and often the planes flew again. Germans went down and stayed down.
 
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