Ar15 double fire help!

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Wreck-n-Crew

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This post could be made a part of reloading section since i only shoot my loads but im not sure what is going on so i thought i would start by process of elimination.

Some background on the ar15:

Anderson Lower. Everything else is AR Stoner including the LPK. I built the lower but the current upper was preassembled from AR Stoner. It has a medium contour pistol length gas system 300 Blackout barrel. Free float Handguard(7").

I built this Ar15 almost 2 years ago and it started out as a 223 With more than 650 flawless rounds. I recently switched to 300 blackout. I form my own brass from selected and qualifying 223 brass to make my 300 blackout brass.

My first 30 blackout loads went flawless through the gun. I Use CFE black powder so no over charge possible. Bullet are 168gr Hornady AMax. Primers are Federal Small Rifle primers. The primer pockets had the military crimp removed prior to hand priming and inspection for full seating, so no raised primers.

The second batch of 80 rounds is where the issue of double fires began.

Double fires happen with trigger remaining at the rear without letting it up. So its not one pull fire and one release fire.

The brass inspection is very interesting because the second case has a raised primer and the firing pin mark looks light as if a slam fire. Again it is almost impossible for there to be an overcharge as i weighed and checked each charge on two scales and the charge is a compressed charge, and listed pressure is 14, 000 psi below max pressure for the cartridge. This is why i chose this powder.

I have checked the disconnecter, hammer, sear visually and it is not visibly worn. I have done the checks with the lower off to see if hammer follows and after hundreds of tries manually i cannot get it to fail.

I plan to load a few different rounds with a different pri.er brand and retest but at this point.i feel like something mechanical is causing it.

My main question is what can cause this that i haven't eliminated? But any suggestions are welcome. Just so puzzled here...
 
If the trigger mechanism is not following, the most likely cause of your slamfire is as Nightlord40K stated: sensitive commercial primers. Try some CCI #41 primers, they are less sensitive than commercial primers.
 
Check your firing pin, see if it's particularly pointy.

I've put tens of thousands of rounds through ARs with every flavor of primer out there, never had one double from firing pin momentum. Federal and CCI are the two primers I use most.
 
I forgot to mention the federal primers im using did not do this in 223 loads. Fired close to 300 with no issue from this same brick.

Not saying the issue isn't the primers just that is it is, it started later on in this brick.

I have 2,000 CCI small rifle primers. I. Going to use those in this new batch of load and see what happens.

My first impression of the second round with the bulged primer is that it looked like when it fired it had excessive head space or fired ever so slightly out of battery. Ill get some pics up soon as i can.
 
Use #41's as (the ironically named, in this thread) Slamfire suggests. Or even CCI 400's. MachIV's suggestion is a good idea, too. The only time I had a double fire on an AR, the hammer pin slid out partially, and it missed the disconnector, but hit the firing pin, then locked it all up. Got it apart, put it back in right and staked it in. Worked fine after that. (this was a while back when there was not much of an internet awash with AR parts)
 
Try a different Lower.

If it continues, problem is in the Upper/bolt/firing pin and/or primer.
(I'd look to the pin/pin-channel/bolt-face next... ever so slight sticking
.... maybe ?)

If it stops, change out the trigger group.
 
Before chasing a bunch of ghosts, as other have said, try some factory 300 AAC Blackout. If it all runs without issues you've eliminated almost everything that could be a mechanical issue with your AR.

Since you are forming your own 300 blackout cases, are you checking length and headspace on each piece?
 
Federal primers are know for having softer cups over all other brands. A high primer will also cause slamfires too. So make sure the primers are below flush. Use a metal straight edge to check this. You can not feel the difference is a primer us only a few 1/1000 high. The recommended primer for AR-15 is the CCI #41 primer. These have a heavier cup and the anvil is different to make them less sensitive.

Test with factory ammo to confirm it's not the gun as suggested.
 
Before chasing a bunch of ghosts, as other have said, try some factory 300 AAC Blackout. If it all runs without issues you've eliminated almost everything that could be a mechanical issue with your AR.

Since you are forming your own 300 blackout cases, are you checking length and headspace on each piece?
I am using a hornady headspace gage. I sorted and culled almost a third of my 223 brass that is no good for 300 Blackout because they are too thick around the neck, However i did not check all of my rounds in the Horandy gage.

Update: i went back through my loaded rounds and got my reading glasses on ( going blind i tell ya). I found one with a high primer where the military crimp was not fully removed.

Also i ran my rounds through the gage and only 3 pass out of 25. Not good. I missed a note on Lee sizing dies http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89334 which happens to be the one im using. After reading this i went back and checked several primed cases and the majority do not fit the gage!.

Needless to say i do have an ammo issue and it needs to be addressed before i can say where the problem lies.

Now i have had no.feed or function issues other than the double fire so i would guess that my chamber is a tad more forgiving than the gage?

Guess this will be continued. Maybe end up in reloading section. At least for now.

Oh and i plan to pick up a few boxes of factory 300 BO to test. Hopefully they run fine and my issue is with my carelessness.

Thanks for all your replies...hope this solves it. If not im not beyond slapping in a trigger group.
 
I started a thread in the reloading room. Figured i would fix this case sizing issue and have all of my loads able to pass a Hornady gage before i do any more loading.

I will pick up some factory ammo asap and get a live test with them done to see if they run right or not.

I don't have an upper to swap with at the moment but if it fails factory rounds ill know its the gun. Honestly i may have 2 different issues going on here.

Thanks for the replies!
 
I agree with everyone above, it's an ammo issue and it sounds like you found it.
The only thing not mentioned is to check your firing pin length. It might be sticking out a little to far.
I've seen this with AKs and the SKS but not in the AR.
 
Double fires happen with trigger remaining at the rear without letting it up. So its not one pull fire and one release fire.

If it fires twice without letting up on the trigger, I would think that is a disconnect problem. If it isn't broken, I would as one of the others said, be looking for a primer or something in the lower that has the disconnect locked up.
Will it fire more than twice while holding the trigger back?
 
Remove lower
Cock hammer
Protect lower from hammer hit, and pull trigger, and hold trigger to rear
While holding trigger to rear, cock hammer. You will have to ease up on pressure a little to let disconnect ride over.
Disconnect should hold hammer.
Release trigger
Disconnect should release, but trigger bar should rise and catch in notch on bottom of hammer to prevent firing

Basically the trigger bar should be high enough to engage the notch on bottom of hammer before disconnect releases the hammer
 
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I checked the disconnecter several times. Never released with trigger held back.

I ran another 100 of my reloads with the Federal primers ( used CCI last small batch of reworked loads) monday without a single issue. That brought the total to 170 with no incident. I suspect the high primers were the main cause. Evidently some crimped primer pockets found their way into the prepped brass. Those cases were also out of spec.

Thanks again for the replies. Its running well. Testing more loads today. Different bullets. Time for accuracy? We will see....
 
Others may chime in, but I'd recommend you...

- Avoid Federal primers/use CCI#41 when loading for gas guns.
- Not crimp. (Or if you do, do so in separate step) to avoid any shoulder deformation/bolt closure resistance.
- Use a bench-mount RCBS bench primer to assure sufficient leverage to bottom out the primer no-matter-what.

.
 
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