ontarget
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Love my stainless Rem 700 in 7mm mag. Awesome cartridge even at shorter ranges. For Michigan whitetails it is excellent. Wouldn't trade it for any other rifle/caliber combo.
Has the 7mm Rem Mag fallen out of favor or is it just my imagination?
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JeffG
Member
I have a Tikka in 7mm Remington Mag. that I'm going to keep. The last two 7mm Rem mags I had, I sold one to a buddy lusting after it, and gifted the other to a budding hunter, who needed a good rifle. It's a great caliber; versatile, easy to load for, accurate and hard hitting. I realize the other 7mags aren't really new any more, but the Remington is a tried and true, and I see no need for new, for the sake of new.
There is one thing that the belted mags have going for them that sometimes gets overlooked.
The most common cartridges I see are the .308, .270, 30-06, 7mm rm, .300 Winchester. Pretty much all shot with the cheapest available factory fodder. Of the lot the 7mm and 300 are most likely to be purchased in bullet weights on the heavier end, why? because thats whats on the shelf.
There ARE some 140class 7mms on the shelf, but they are usually "premiums" and about 10 bucks more than the standard 150 and 160s. Same for the .300, the 150, are usually "premium" grade ammo, 165s-180s being standard (price is the same so most common weight i see are the 180s) not a lot of guys i know are willing to spend 40+ bucks a box on ammo.
Standard cheap ammo for the lighter rounds are 150 for the 30s, and 130s for the .270.
On our animals, 90% of the time a heavy 7 or 30 will exit, end to end, diagonal, dosent matter they usually exit. The exit wounds generated are usually in the 3-5" range, even thru the guts with no bone hits. Exit holes that size are usually debilitating, rarely will an animal make it too far with a hole that size in them.
Out here id say most hunters dont practice a whole lot (some never). Im unusual in that i usually shoot 20-100rnds a week (my wife gives me crap about wasting ammo, and her whole family hunts). Bad shots arent the norm, but they arnt uncommon. Id much rather track, or have to double up on an animal thats got a gaping hole in its side.
That brings me to the point that, yes when everything is done/goes even mostly right a smaller cased, smaller bullet round works fine, and a magnum with a heavy bullet is overkill 90% of the time, but when stuff goes south it can make a difference.
The most common cartridges I see are the .308, .270, 30-06, 7mm rm, .300 Winchester. Pretty much all shot with the cheapest available factory fodder. Of the lot the 7mm and 300 are most likely to be purchased in bullet weights on the heavier end, why? because thats whats on the shelf.
There ARE some 140class 7mms on the shelf, but they are usually "premiums" and about 10 bucks more than the standard 150 and 160s. Same for the .300, the 150, are usually "premium" grade ammo, 165s-180s being standard (price is the same so most common weight i see are the 180s) not a lot of guys i know are willing to spend 40+ bucks a box on ammo.
Standard cheap ammo for the lighter rounds are 150 for the 30s, and 130s for the .270.
On our animals, 90% of the time a heavy 7 or 30 will exit, end to end, diagonal, dosent matter they usually exit. The exit wounds generated are usually in the 3-5" range, even thru the guts with no bone hits. Exit holes that size are usually debilitating, rarely will an animal make it too far with a hole that size in them.
Out here id say most hunters dont practice a whole lot (some never). Im unusual in that i usually shoot 20-100rnds a week (my wife gives me crap about wasting ammo, and her whole family hunts). Bad shots arent the norm, but they arnt uncommon. Id much rather track, or have to double up on an animal thats got a gaping hole in its side.
That brings me to the point that, yes when everything is done/goes even mostly right a smaller cased, smaller bullet round works fine, and a magnum with a heavy bullet is overkill 90% of the time, but when stuff goes south it can make a difference.
Garandimal
member
Well...
A plain ole 22" sporter rifle chambered in .270 WIN - loaded with factory Federal Premium low-tech 150 gr. Nosler Partition (BC=0.465) (SD=0.279) ammo with their mild 2800 fps at the muzzle?
...will still put a 1,000 Lb-Ft of Energy into your designated "meals-on-hooves" at 600 yards... and only drop 6-1/2' (-78") with a 200 yd. zero getting there.
So, it seems to me that if one had a sweet shootin' .270 WIN that they shot well and wanted to brag...?
They would be better served just investing in a good laser range-finder.
GR
A friend bought a 7mm Rem Mag rifle, dies, and I loaded ammo for him, but I don't think he uses it much. He bought a Browning auto rifle in .280 Rem and was deadly with it. I witnessed his offhand shot at a running deer at about 200 yards and was really impressed. (After seeing him shoot another at closer range that needed two more shots to finish it, I was less-impressed, but don't blame the cartridge.
The .280 Rem is a fine deer cartridge, shooting heavier bullets better than most .270s like. If I wasn't invested in the .270 Win, I'd pick it instead of the 7mm Mag, because the recoil is less, it has plenty of punch, and no darned belt!
The .280 Rem is a fine deer cartridge, shooting heavier bullets better than most .270s like. If I wasn't invested in the .270 Win, I'd pick it instead of the 7mm Mag, because the recoil is less, it has plenty of punch, and no darned belt!
Mowgli Terry
Member
I love it! have you noticed the merry go round of some old time cartridges? Kind like 257 Roberts. The Bob has died a half-dozen times. The 7 Mag will spring back to life.You watch. The pendulum will swing back the other direction. Remember when 40 S&W made everything else obsolete? Remember when the .380 was a bad choice for personal protection? As an aside, how many second hand hunting rifles do see that have no evidences of use? There is an aura of hot air about all this stuff. How many of these miracle cartridges are designed to run through an AR platform. Have you seen what has happened to the AR market lately. What's on sale everywhere? What's next?
Sav .250
Member
One in the family........Fine cal. Gets the job done.
EIB0879
Member
I sold mine over ten years ago. Nothing to do with the cartridge as much as the rifle. My BIL still uses his a lot.
Right ?, just like those that complain about the .40 S&W's "harsh recoil" that run back to the 9mm , really ?. Then you have people like me that don't fall into that category that are gluttons for punishment and don't mind it which is why I have a Steyr Mannlicher M95 in 8x56r that kicks like a Missouri Mule, far harder than anything I've pulled the trigger on including a friends "hot" 7mm handloads & I like it
Yeah, I was wondering about that. What is the old saying, "Kills at one end and seriously injures on the other one.
I have one of those but aint hoss enough to fire it. I really wish that it was in the original 8x50 which from all accounts is a pretty pleasant round to fire.
.308 Norma
Member
Deleted - misread a post.
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.308 Norma
Member
Yep, they are. All of them! Back when I was growing up, if someone said "7mm," they meant 7mm Mauser (7X57mm), not 7mm Remington Magnum.
Yes sir, and my dad was one of those 30-30 scoffers. Which goes to show how long this discussion has been going on - I'm 70, and I can remember my dad running down the "thuddy-thuddy" when I was no more than 14 years old.
But my dad was always a bit recoil shy too. He would have never dreamed of shooting anything that had "magnum" in its name. Dad loved his .308 Winchester, and used it well.
However, this thread is about the 7mm Rem Mag. I like it. In fact, Mrs. .308 Norma shoots a semi-custom 7mm Rem Mag that she had built 15 or 20 years ago. And she's quite deadly with it. But she has a trick when it comes to dealing with recoil. She practices off and on all summer long with reduced loads. Then come fall, using a recoil shield, she puts a few real hunting rounds (160gr Speer GS over a charge of RL-22) through her 7mm Rem Mag just to make sure it's on. And she says she "never feels it kick when she has the crosshairs on a deer." She hasn't killed an elk with her 7mm Rem Mag yet, but I'm sure it will work just fine if she draws a tag.
Oh, BTW - I've said it before, but I'll say it again. If you don't want to ruin a lot of meat when you shoot a big game animal, don't shoot him in the hind quarters or the front shoulders. Period. My dad taught me that. And like I said - Dad would have never dreamed of shooting a rifle that had "magnum" in its name.
Not that I've never messed up and shot an animal where I shouldn't have. I've ruined some meat a time or two. The worst mess I ever made of meat was when I shot a large mule deer buck in the rear end as he was bouncing straight away from me at about 50 yards. But guess what - I made that mess with a .270 Winchester, not a "magnum" of any kind.
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Captcurt
Member
Not one new 7 mag has crossed my threshold since I got my FLL 8 years ago and the consignment guns are still in the safe. Some have been there for years. I can hardly give one away. It seems as though the 7mm Rem Mag has gone the way of the 264 Winchester. Most people have found that there are other rounds that will do just as well without the recoil, blast or high cost of ammo.
Going to the local deer butchering outfit when there are lots of deer being brought in is an education in itself. It's amazing to see how many deer have been hit in the wrong places...more than once! Some are shot with magnums and you can tell when you see the massive wounds to the shoulder or hindquarters, (confirmed by asking the butcher) plus a few other places.
The worst shots seem to have been when deer are driven (often illegally) and standers aren't very good shots, but armed with semi-autos. We've gotten some "wow" stories about such situations. It's a wonder that more people aren't killed when driving deer. In Maine, number of hunters participating in drives is supposedly limited, but we've seen as many as 15 or more people, including 10 year old kids.
The worst shots seem to have been when deer are driven (often illegally) and standers aren't very good shots, but armed with semi-autos. We've gotten some "wow" stories about such situations. It's a wonder that more people aren't killed when driving deer. In Maine, number of hunters participating in drives is supposedly limited, but we've seen as many as 15 or more people, including 10 year old kids.
Varminterror
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I would tend to agree, but I really don’t think we’ll ever see a resurgence of the 7mm Rem mag. Yes, a lot of cartridges have enjoyed the “what was old has become new” paradigm, but you have NOT seen that trend with certain TYPES of cartridges. Magnum length rounds are being replaced by short mags. Rimmed have been thoroughly displaced. Belted mags as well - and the 7mm Rem mag along with it. So if excessive powder use and excessive recoil come back into style 30yrs from now, I don’t see any reason the 7mm Rem mag, belt and all, would ever make a resurgence. We’ll see WSM’s, RSAUM’s, RCM/PRC’s, and RUM’s - but I highly doubt we’ll see a favorable wind for belted magnums ever again. If supply of RUM, RSAUM, or WSM brass were more consistent, I think we would have already seen a complete demise of new 7 Rem mag rifle sales.
Equally, as has been belabored in this thread, the likelihood of our culture favoring magnums as a whole, which are only really necessary for long range hunting, has reduced greatly. So the problem becomes threefold - hunting has to regain popularity, then long range hunting has to gain popularity within that criteria, then those long range hunters have to be convinced to buy a cartridge of an outdated design...
The 7rem mag and 300 win mag are some of my favorite hunting cartridges (300 might be my top favorite, in fact), but overcoming that belt - an outdated cartridge design - is really difficult.
.308 Norma
Member
I suspect you're right. It's just kind of hard for me to accept that the mighty 7mm Remington Magnum, a cartridge that was introduced in 1962 (the year before I killed my first head of big game) is now "a cartridge of an outdated design."
Oh well. I'll still be using my beloved 308 Norma Magnum come this fall, even though the cartridge design is outdated and has a much detested belt.
BTW Varminterror, I also agree with you about hunting having to regain popularity. I don't think it's going to happen. Times have changed - sadly, in my opinion.
TN Outlaw
Member
In my neck of the woods whitetail is the game of choice and shots are usually under 200yds.(most less than 100yds) There's alot more reasons to use something OTHER than the 7WM than there is reasons TO use one around here. That don't stop some hunters from using one but not near as many as used to. It's a fine cartridge and has it's niche to where it shines but there's just not very much call for that around here.
A fine shooting 7mm-08 will suffice for anything in my area and do so in a shorter and more handy package with significantly less recoil. Also, like others have said, the 6.5CM craze and other efficient rounds have took hold and put a hurting on 7WM's use. Still, from what I can tell the .308win and 270win rules the woods around here. Personally, I think 160gr Nosler Partition in my 24" 270win will do anything I would need a 7WM to do.
I still respect and admire the 7WM cartridge and the name it has made for itself.
A fine shooting 7mm-08 will suffice for anything in my area and do so in a shorter and more handy package with significantly less recoil. Also, like others have said, the 6.5CM craze and other efficient rounds have took hold and put a hurting on 7WM's use. Still, from what I can tell the .308win and 270win rules the woods around here. Personally, I think 160gr Nosler Partition in my 24" 270win will do anything I would need a 7WM to do.
I still respect and admire the 7WM cartridge and the name it has made for itself.
.308 Norma
Member
Typo? We were talking about the 7mm Remington Magnum. Offhand, the only "7WM" I can think of would be the 7mm Weatherby Magnum. And that's an entirely different beasty as a buddy of mine found out. He bought himself a 7mm Weatherby Magnum thinking he could use less expensive 7mm Remington Magnum ammo in it.
The 7mm "Short Magnum" has a lot going for it. My neighbor has one and we sighted it in. A problem with the short magnums is that they don't feed from magazines as well as more conventional cartridges because they're so fat and short. Many of them are not selling well. Too bad, but they weren't all well-conceived and were seen by many as unneeded.
The 6.5 Creedmore may meet the same fate if hunters don't feel it's worth using instead of what they're using, or what they've heard about for years. Yes, lots of long-distance shooters love it, but that's a limited market and once the first hundred thousand rifles are sold, the market may die. It's not an established hunting round, especially in the East and isn't an established magnum round desired by the Western hunters. Hunters tend to be more conservative in buying something new. Many have been "burned" before with new cartridges and are more likely to stick with what they know. Ever hear of the .264 Winchester Mag in the last 10 years?
The 6.5 Creedmore may meet the same fate if hunters don't feel it's worth using instead of what they're using, or what they've heard about for years. Yes, lots of long-distance shooters love it, but that's a limited market and once the first hundred thousand rifles are sold, the market may die. It's not an established hunting round, especially in the East and isn't an established magnum round desired by the Western hunters. Hunters tend to be more conservative in buying something new. Many have been "burned" before with new cartridges and are more likely to stick with what they know. Ever hear of the .264 Winchester Mag in the last 10 years?
I believe there a Llama shooting one of those.....https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...inchester-magnum-ready-for-elk-season.839102/
I agree if there isn't a strong following any new cartridge will wan. Shooters in general tend to rely on each other, and people we see as knowledgeable when considering a cartridge.
Nobody wants to be the first guy.....well not a lot of folks anyway.
Honestly I see the decline in heavier small bore hunting cartridges, and the rise of (admittedly usually more sensible) low recoil rounds, as a result of there being more target shooters/plinkers than hunters now.
The benefits of low recoil, flat trajectory, and bullet advancement has been pushed over the added bullet weight, and energy a magnum is capable of delivering. I honestly don't think that necessarily a bad thing in most cases.
Honestly I don't think a new cartridges survival depends on hunters anymore, I think it depends on the rest of the shooting public.
For the big magnums to have a real rivival, I think you would need to see a popular action shooting game that used knock down targets, heavy ones where a marginal hit with a 6.5 class round wouldn't guarantee a topple.
.308 Norma
Member
As a matter of fact, yeah. There was a thread about it in the Handloading and Reloading section right here on THR not over a couple of months ago.
The .264 Winchester Magnum has intrigued me ever since I seen the mighty Winchester Model 70 "Westerner" stretched across the tops of two pages in the 1962 Winchester catalog in my mom's and dad's country store. I was 14.
Never-the-less, I agree with you Picher. And that's why I don't have a .264 Win Mag of my own. I'm generally a "conservative" when it comes to buying into something new as far as hunting cartridges are concerned.
I never bought into the "short magnum" craze either. But that was for two reasons: First, because as you said, I never thought they were needed. And second, I feel that the much touted "useless, troublesome and hated" belt on older magnum rifle cartridges is a non-issue. As a handloader, all you do is force the belted cartridge to head-space on its shoulder when you resize it the first time. Besides, I think belts on magnum rifle cartridges look cool.
I don't know what to think about the 6.5 Creed. About a year and a half ago, on another forum I predicted the 6.5 Creed would fade into obscurity before another year had passed. And I said if I was wrong, I'd be back in a year to admit my mistake. A few months ago, I did just that - went back to that forum and admitted I was wrong. The 6.5 Creed seems to still be going strong, at least on these message forums.
.308 Norma
Member
I think you hit the nail on the head LoonWulf!
Llama Bob
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Of the big 4 western US hunting cartridges (.30-06, .308, 7mm mag and .270) the 7mm mag is by far my favorite. I'll say that up front. I'd seriously consider it if it was a handloader-only proposition.
That said clearly interest has dropped off. I see several factors:
1) The 7RM only really made sense for one application: western elk and similar size thin skin game with long shots elsewhere in the world. If shots are short or the game is small, the 7MM is excessive. If a stopping rifle is needed for dangerous game, the .375 H&H is available and should be used.
2) The market fragmenting between different 7mms with the STW, Weatherby. WSM, SAUM, .280AI, and 28 Nosler all taking some share. All offer similar or superior performance.
3) The shooting public owning up to the fact that recoil hurts accuracy. Sure you may be a manly man who shoots ultra-magnum mountain rifles without the slightest concern, but in general accuracy goes down as recoil goes up and younger shooters are more willing to accept this it seems like.
4) Belts being out of fashion. Admittedly, the belt on the 7RM is as useless as feet on a snake. We should set up a belt donation program where 7RM shooters can donate their unwanted belts to a .400 Whelen shooter in desperate need
5) The 7RM was never very good for paper punching, but pre-internet many shooters had no idea what was good for what. The internet has really driven the adoption of cartridges like the 6/6.5CM, 6.5-284 and 6mmBR variants that all punch a mean paper at long range with better accuracy and less recoil. There's now a Darwinian process of caliber competition which never existed before. If an improvement comes along and starts winning in competition in a specific discipline, whole populations of shooters will switch overnight.
6) For whatever reason the 7RM never has had the irrational fanatics that the .30-06 and .270 have - people who like the cartridge because of some perceived cultural positioning rather than technical merit.
I happen to live in one of the few places where the core application for the 7RM is the typical type of hunting. I don't see hunting in general on the decline. There's still more hunters than game. I haven't seen much decline in the number of 7RMs in the field (it's a top 2 elk rifle), but I think there's an existing population of guns that's getting passed around with not that many new ones purchased. But it'll still be readily available both used and new with plenty of ammo support for a very very long time.
That said clearly interest has dropped off. I see several factors:
1) The 7RM only really made sense for one application: western elk and similar size thin skin game with long shots elsewhere in the world. If shots are short or the game is small, the 7MM is excessive. If a stopping rifle is needed for dangerous game, the .375 H&H is available and should be used.
2) The market fragmenting between different 7mms with the STW, Weatherby. WSM, SAUM, .280AI, and 28 Nosler all taking some share. All offer similar or superior performance.
3) The shooting public owning up to the fact that recoil hurts accuracy. Sure you may be a manly man who shoots ultra-magnum mountain rifles without the slightest concern, but in general accuracy goes down as recoil goes up and younger shooters are more willing to accept this it seems like.
4) Belts being out of fashion. Admittedly, the belt on the 7RM is as useless as feet on a snake. We should set up a belt donation program where 7RM shooters can donate their unwanted belts to a .400 Whelen shooter in desperate need
5) The 7RM was never very good for paper punching, but pre-internet many shooters had no idea what was good for what. The internet has really driven the adoption of cartridges like the 6/6.5CM, 6.5-284 and 6mmBR variants that all punch a mean paper at long range with better accuracy and less recoil. There's now a Darwinian process of caliber competition which never existed before. If an improvement comes along and starts winning in competition in a specific discipline, whole populations of shooters will switch overnight.
6) For whatever reason the 7RM never has had the irrational fanatics that the .30-06 and .270 have - people who like the cartridge because of some perceived cultural positioning rather than technical merit.
I happen to live in one of the few places where the core application for the 7RM is the typical type of hunting. I don't see hunting in general on the decline. There's still more hunters than game. I haven't seen much decline in the number of 7RMs in the field (it's a top 2 elk rifle), but I think there's an existing population of guns that's getting passed around with not that many new ones purchased. But it'll still be readily available both used and new with plenty of ammo support for a very very long time.
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Used to be the 7RM dominated competition.. Now its powder puff loads. They should implement Power Factor scoring in PRS
someguy2800
Member
If the want it to be popular they need to get it into the call of duty games lol.
I don’t ever recall 7mm mag being popular here in Minnesota. If you go to a bigger sporting goods store there will be 10 kinds of 30-06, 270, 243, ect and like 2 of 7mm which will be expensive. I don’t see many rifles chambered in it new or used. Same goes for 300 win mag. If you show up in a deer camp with either people will think your a yuppie.
I don’t ever recall 7mm mag being popular here in Minnesota. If you go to a bigger sporting goods store there will be 10 kinds of 30-06, 270, 243, ect and like 2 of 7mm which will be expensive. I don’t see many rifles chambered in it new or used. Same goes for 300 win mag. If you show up in a deer camp with either people will think your a yuppie.
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