SW 2 piece barrels
- Thread starter Catpop
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For some reason, I read that in the voice of Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday from Tombstone
(The Poker scene, early in the movie, where we learn that Holiday also carries a knife)
I'm not a big G&A or Shooting Times fan, but that was the same explanation I was given when I asked Randy Lee of Apex Tactical about the two piece barrel...and I have a lot of faith when Randy tells me stuff about revolvers.Written by a gun writer, so take it FWIW.
While they did save a lot of money...either in salaries, material, or time...the end result was a better product for the consumer. This modification has pretty much put the issue of clocked barrels to bed, allows more control over barrel/cylinder gap, and makes barrel swaps much more practical.
Randy also does a lot of accuracy testing...although the accuracy advantage of the tensioned barrel has been long proven...and confirms that average accuracy of the two-piece barrels is a measurable improvement over the one piece barrels
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Another friend of mine is a Forensic Firearms Expert and had a plug made to remove a barrel.
He had a mold of the barrel taken...I seem to recall the engagement section was 2-3" long...and had a male slug machined from that. It was fitted with a T-handle and allowed him to unscrew the barrel from the frame. It was interesting to see and explained to me how tension was applied to the front of the shroud.
Not as cool as the Dan Wesson with it's adjustable gap, but pretty cool anyway
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Catpop
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I can understand your statement of more uniform barrel installation due to not having to undertorque or over torque the one piece barrel to make it perfectly align at high noon.
And also understand your statement of barrel swaps being easier for the factory even if not for the consumer.
But don’t understand the cylinder gap statement. Once either barrel is installed, how does it provide more control over cylinder gap?
Wouldn’t an incorrect gap adjustment be identical for both barrel installations?
Or have they invented a new process to adjust cylinder gap on the two piece barrels?
I’m not trying to be being critical, I’m just very curious about SWs barrel system.
We’ve already seen the dropping of recessed cylinders and pinned barrels. I wonder are we going to see a total move to the 2 pc barrel system by SW?
If so, that will be one more thing to put the old one piece barrel SWs more collectible thus driving their price even higher. Jmtcw
jaguarxk120
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I've read that the S&W barrels are rifled with a EDM process and not friendly
to lead bullets. Also they use a Gain twist type of rifling on the super magnums.
If a gunsmith can remove the barrel then a hammer forged or premium barrel can be installed.
A barrel much better suited to shooting lead.
to lead bullets. Also they use a Gain twist type of rifling on the super magnums.
If a gunsmith can remove the barrel then a hammer forged or premium barrel can be installed.
A barrel much better suited to shooting lead.
See the earlier comment about the difficulty in getting the traditional barrel rotationally positioned perfectly (such that the profile and front sight to align correctly) while simultaneously getting the torque and cylinder gap correct. It's an installation issue, but the cutting of the threads has to be perfect as well. Getting all those right isn't trivial, and occasionally you'll hear about a "clocked" barrel.
With the 2-piece design, the front sight and the "barrel's" exterior profile are on the shroud and not the actual barrel itself. OIW, they're not linked to cylinder gap and threading. My take, then is that smart engineers can design in length, threading, cylinder gap, and torque, so the assemblers just place the correctly-indexed shroud on the frame, and screw the barrel down to spec torque. Voilá.
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Catpop
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Gain type rifling? Didn’t know that either!
Q: is gain type rifling not conducive to boolits and why?
Q: Is the frame thread not conducive to a one piece replacement barrel?
Q: what is the size/pitch of the frame thread?
AFAIK, gain twist was, as suggested, limited to the über-hot magnum(s) (e.g. 460XVR)
According to the interweb, EDM rifling doesn't play well with cast bullets, presumably because the lands/grooves are shallower. But look into it, and you'll read plenty of reports that lots of people have no issues at all. All the cast bullets I've shot have shot very well out of my EDM-equipped revolvers, without leading, though in full disclosure, I've only used cast bullets when I needed to load some low-velocity target rounds. I suppose it's possible cast bullets might start jumping lands if you start pushing magnum velocities.
According to the interweb, EDM rifling doesn't play well with cast bullets, presumably because the lands/grooves are shallower. But look into it, and you'll read plenty of reports that lots of people have no issues at all. All the cast bullets I've shot have shot very well out of my EDM-equipped revolvers, without leading, though in full disclosure, I've only used cast bullets when I needed to load some low-velocity target rounds. I suppose it's possible cast bullets might start jumping lands if you start pushing magnum velocities.
You won't be replacing a two-piece barrel with a one-piece barrel.
The shroud fits into mating surfaces in the frame, and it's the torqueing of the inner flanged barrel tube that retains the shroud in place.
A custom aftermarket barrel maker would have to fabricate another flanged inner barrel tube to fit inside the original shroud.
Little point.
And Borland- you'd THINK the pre-indexed shroud containing the front sight would be impossible to cant that sight, but there have been reports on the S&W Forum about canted two-piecers, and I had to move the rear sight noticeably right on the sample 66 snub with two-piece barrel I had here.
Denis
The shroud fits into mating surfaces in the frame, and it's the torqueing of the inner flanged barrel tube that retains the shroud in place.
A custom aftermarket barrel maker would have to fabricate another flanged inner barrel tube to fit inside the original shroud.
Little point.
And Borland- you'd THINK the pre-indexed shroud containing the front sight would be impossible to cant that sight, but there have been reports on the S&W Forum about canted two-piecers, and I had to move the rear sight noticeably right on the sample 66 snub with two-piece barrel I had here.
Denis
Saleen322
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I have had decent luck with cast bullets in the 460. A 265 GC cast shoots well, we got it into the 3" group range at 100 yards with an average velocity of 1828 fps. But it does seem to like the lighter bullets because a 310 cast GC bullet did not do well at all stringing vertically no matter what I tried. The other internet myth seems to be that the 460 does not shoot 45 Colt lead bullets well. Here are two 45 Colt groups from the 460 at 25 yards. We were happy with this as we did not even try to get a dedicated load for the 460 using 45 Colt. This is what we shoot from the Ruger single action.
Having a front nut around the muzzle end of the barrel and all of it inside the barrel shroud had fewer stress points
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Catpop
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How was that washer attached to barrel? Swaged? Doesn’t look like it was part of barrel or welded on.
I had assumed it was an integral collar. What I see in picture with that thin washer sure looks rinky dink. Jmho
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Catpop
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Glad to hear it was integral collar. Sorry it is so thin! I would have expected thicker!
It would have been unsightly
Gordon
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This technique was developed by RG and other inexpensive German manufacturers to slap together low cost pistols using Zamak shrouds in the 1950s. The EDM rifling uses hi frequency cureent and chemicals and is utilitarian . I do have a couple Scandium/Ti S&Ws and have no illusions as to their beauty or pride of ownership . They have seemed to refine the S&W process in the last few years but I am not buying any more in this life
I recall about a dozen years back when the NC Department of Corrections had those wonderful two piece barrels breaking off the frames and sailing down range during qualifications. Brand new model 64s IIRC.
The current company calling itself s&w was quick to send technical reps down here. The end result being a media release that "NC DOC is continuing its long partnership with s&w and adopting the new m&p 40 pistol."
Their designs and QA/QC may not be worth a damn, but their PR is top notch.
The current company calling itself s&w was quick to send technical reps down here. The end result being a media release that "NC DOC is continuing its long partnership with s&w and adopting the new m&p 40 pistol."
Their designs and QA/QC may not be worth a damn, but their PR is top notch.
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