1917 enfield ghost gun no numbers or make what the heck did i buy here

Have you had the stock off? There may be more information stamped under the receiver.

.40

The Maker and Serial number should be up there on the receiver. Perhaps it is under the Scope rail..

I would bet it is under the scope base.

I had thought the older Enfields were 303. Did they make them 30-06 too or has this one been rechambered? If not are the 303, 30-06 and 7.62/308 the same? Just wantin to understand.

skeeterfogger said:

I had thought the older Enfields were 303. Did they make them 30-06 too or has this one been rechambered? If not are the 303, 30-06 and 7.62/308 the same? Just wantin to understand.

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The rifle design was originally British and labeled the P13 during trials and the P14 as adopted (p means pattern) based off of the Mauser. It was designed to replace the No. 1, Mk3 Enfield aka SMLE--Short Magazine Lee Enfield. But WWI started before the Brits could transition to the new rifle and due to the horrific losses of men and rifles early in the conflict, they came to the U.S. to buy large quantities of rifles in .303 from Remington and Winchester (plus Remington set up a subsidiary in Eddystone PA to make them). By the time that the rifles were up and ready, the British had figured out a way to up their SMLE production so these went to second line troops or were in reserve for the most part. But, just as these contracts were cancelled, the US entered the war and desperately needed rifles that Springfield and Rock Island could simply not produce in the quantities needed. But, the workforces and factories were there and the design was easily switched to produce a .30-06 rifle which became the 1917 U.S. Rifle aka American Enfield. At least half or more of these rifles ended up Over There in the hands of Doughboys and it saw limited action in WWII after being placed in war reserve after WWI. The professional army preferred the Springfield 03 to the Brit designed 1917 rifle. The picture of the Winchester 1917 rifle indicates where the serial number should be if it has not been removed or restamped elsewhere.

saiga308 said:

ok now i see i got to get that large mount off the reciever it to see the make and numbers its frozen on time to get the torch out on the screws

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It may be soft soldered on as that used to be done to help retain scope mounts.

skeeterfogger said:

I had thought the older Enfields were 303. Did they make them 30-06 too or has this one been rechambered? If not are the 303, 30-06 and 7.62/308 the same? Just wantin to understand.

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The 303 is completely different than the 30 06. The 30 06 is the parent case for the shorter 308. None of the above are interchangeable. @boom boom gave a good description of why the M1917 is referred to as an Enfield. Mine however is a Winchester M1917. People refer to these rifles as Enfields incorrectly. The P17 is the 303 version built by American companies for Britain. M1917 is are very good rifles by anyone's standards.

it has the original barrel that was cut, it has a arsenal mark on the rear right side of the barrel near the receiver. the safety has a E stamp for eddystone and that may be the rifles maker. clean it up, put a better scope on it and take it hunting. I have a friend who bought one for a foul weather rifle years ago with the original sights on it with the same style cut down stock, it shoots well, but it is a little heavy.

Looks like the character partially hanging out on the right side of the redfield scope base is E so Eastbank is probably correct, the reciever sight is milled off. Has it been converted to "cock on opening" ? You would know it cocks back firing pin when you open the bolt.

The receiver ring was drilled and tapped for the scope base, so the markings that were there might have been ground off as well. There's no way to tell for sure unless you remove the scope base. Note that removing or defacing the original serial number is a crime, so whoever did that was working in ignorance, to say the least.

AlexanderA said:

The receiver ring was drilled and tapped for the scope base, so the markings that were there might have been ground off as well. There's no way to tell for sure unless you remove the scope base. Note that removing or defacing the original serial number is a crime, so whoever did that was working in ignorance, to say the least.

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Depends on when it was done, this link describes some of the murky world of pre GCA laws and whether ex post facto is involved--it has links to the ATF's regulations on the matter. https://www.pennlago.com/are-firearms-without-serial-numbers-illegal/

After a bit of research, O/P, you might need to consult a lawyer on the issue unless you destroy the receiver in a pre approved ATF way. The possible legal problems are not worth a cheap firearm.

Before the 1968 Gun Control Act there were a lot military surplus rifles converted to sporters and little attention was paid to what happened to Make, Model, Serial Number markings in the process of sporterizing. Especially if the guns were in Fair to Poor external condition.

Now, it is supposedly a federal felony to be in possession of a firearm if the identifying marks have been obliterated.

A lot of "farmer's friend" cheap .22 rifles and shotgun models never had serial numbers and those were grandfathered under the GCA68.

Carl N. Brown said:

Before the 1968 Gun Control Act there were a lot military surplus rifles converted to sporters and little attention was paid to what happened to Make, Model, Serial Number markings in the process of sporterizing. Especially if the guns were in Fair to Poor external condition.

Now, it is supposedly a federal felony to be in possession of a firearm if the identifying marks have been obliterated.

A lot of "farmer's friend" cheap .22 rifles and shotgun models never had serial numbers and those were grandfathered under the GCA68.

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The black letter of the law suggest that mere possession is a crime as is selling one and an additional difficulty ensues in proving when the marks obliterated. I would be worried about any charge that simply has "possession" of an item as a crime as there is not a need to prove intent. That is one of the reasons I personally stay away from FA parts kits or semiauto conversions in the marketplace or things that create the facsimile of those items like bumpstocks/trick triggers/etc. Interesting thing to read about such conversion in the Shotgun News but screwing up a project is not worth the possible legal grief that would ensue.

Serial numbers were not legally required prior to GCA68. many a Savage and similar out there with no number - perfectly legal

George P said:

Serial numbers were not legally required prior to GCA68. many a Savage and similar out there with no number - perfectly legal

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That's true, but all M1917's originally had serial numbers. Up to 1968, you could have legally obliterated the serial number. The crime is continuing to possess a gun with an obliterated serial number after 1968.

The gun in the OP looks like it had the serial number obliterated. (That could be verified by removing the scope mount.) If that's the case, the gun is contraband and the sooner it disappears, the better.

George P said:

Serial numbers were not legally required prior to GCA68. many a Savage and similar out there with no number - perfectly legal

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However, the law talks about specifically obliterated serial numbers--if the Savage had one in the past and now does not, then it is apparently a crime to possess or sell the firearm. The PA firearm blog link speculates that it might or might not apply to serial number obliteration before the 1968 GCA but exactly how would one prove when it occurred. U.S. m1917 rifles all were produced with a serial number (unless you had a lunch pail type situation) and apparently someone obliterated it during the conversion to a sporter.

Sorry Alexander A, you are quicker than me.