Why are people even saying the word "revolt"?

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DigitalWarrior

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Why are people saying "revolt"? Especially in relation to the RKBA?

There was a thread asking what would happen if the USSC ruled that the 2nd was a "collective" right (whatever the hell that means). More than half mentioned revolt. ***? There are other options, if we take them before tossing ourselves bodily into the meat chipper of the modern military.

There is The Free State Project which is aiming to move a whole bunch of liberty lovers to New Hampshire. Once there, we may be able to make an amendment that says "Our well regulated Militia, which is necessary to the security of a free State, shall be comprised of all non-felon citizens of the State of New Hampshire, and shall be subject to the Militia regulations relating to the ownership of militia armaments" A seperate document that defines militia regulations shall be written and appr.

*POOF* No more federal legislation related to firearms.

So why are we saying the word "revolt" again?
 
But the anti's argue that the second is related to state militias. The very minimum that the amendment can be interperated as is "The Fed cannot infringe on the state militia's right to keep and bear Arms"

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
 
Goody, those folks will all be in one state for a minor nuclear accident to occur and it will be blamed on terrorists.

Actually, I just find it sad that we are at the point where so many people will try to overwhelm a state so that they can vote their beliefs.

In a time past the government worked in the people's best interests.

These days our government grows and acts in its best interests. My opinion since I don't feel like trying to post facts to it.

I am not going to move to one state so one out of 50 can be free, states that is.

I am currently in agreement with claire wolfe, I think she is the one who said it is still monkey wrench time.

After that time I don't see a time where you concentrate in one state to create a smaller target.

I also might vote revolt, I have not reached the thread mentioned.

And I do want all to know that I hope their take over of the state goes well. I hope many can learn from what occurs.

I just don't want anyone to think that I am willing to move in order to gain what I consider my rights.

IF I was born with the natural rights that I feel belong to me, I don't have to move in order to find them. They go where I go.
 
Wow, NH looks pretty good actually. Maybe I'll go there instead of NV. Not as damn hot.
 
Darn...

Chipperman, you beat me to it...Although, I find a lot more than just the Anti-gunners viewpoint revolting...

In an attempt to answer your question Digital Warrior:

Here is what I THINK some people are thinking. The time to fight back is when you are strongest. Say, the USSC makes some sweeping 2nd Ammendment Judgement, NOT in our favor. SO...do you wait 20 years while they slowly nickle and dime you with new gun laws, until all you have to fight back with are single-shot .22 rifles, or, do you start fighting back now, when people still have 30-round magazines for their AR-10's and FN's...

Like I said, it's not necessarily my viewpoint, but from talking to some people, I know it is the viewpoint of some. As for me...I'm not really sure where my 'revolt' line is drawn. The wife and I were talking about this while reading Unintended Consequences. What we finally decided is...when the time does come(IF it does) then, we will know.


greg
 
I just find it sad that we are at the point where so many people will try to overwhelm a state so that they can vote their beliefs.
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Their beliefs?

Have you seen the arguments BETWEEN Free Staters? Free Staters, even here, range from admitted Anarchists to admitted Socialists.
 
.........before tossing ourselves bodily into the meat-chipper of a modern military.
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The founding fathers tossed themselves into a meat chipper of a modern military with support of about a 1/3 of the population.
People of Eastern Block nations in the 1980s and 90's tossed themselves into the meat chipper of modern militaries, nations which had a reputation of ruthlessly putting down rebellions and unrest.
Insurgents are throwing themselves into the meat chipper of a modern military in Iraq and Afghanistan. Funny thing is, if the insurgents could really shoot worth a damn we'd be feeling the pain of their attacks a lot more.
Don't count on the military following order to fire on their own people. Of course there are always going to be order following loyalists in the military. But the sons and daughters serving in our armed forces won't turn against their own people en mass.
 
Justin, we all fantasize about being Rambo. Some more than others, but we all do it. Otherwise, why bother to own guns? If it might be because we enjoy the shiny metal, then why the camo? If it's because (as some suggest) it makes us feel more masculine, then why do women also own guns?

No, back in the farthest corners of our minds, we all know that someday-- not today and not tomorrow, but someday-- we're going to have to shoot some government agents. Some of our number have been in shooting wars and aren't in any hurry to do it again, but we would if we had to. Most of us hope that we'll be spared that experience but fear that our children won't be so fortunate.

We all know that Big Brother reads what we write here and notes who and what is being said. While few of us have a great deal of respect for the "intelligence" community, I think we can be fairly certain they know who and where we are and whether or not we constitute any real threat to the powers that be. Our occasional mention of the "R" word is probably considered more of a catharsis than a threat, allowing us to vent some of our anger and energy in a harmless forum.

Yeah, we'd all like to be Rambo but many of us are too old and fat to run across the yard while others are too young and green to know what to do when they got there. Now I know why youth is wasted on the young.
 
Oldfart

I take exception to your statement that all of us have fantasies about being Rambo. *I* do not fantasize about being Rambo and shooting .gov agents.

*I* fantasize about being Sporpious, putting some .gov agents in the Aurora Chair and segmenting their minds, as many layers as it takes for them to see the error of their ways. That and having some fun with a certain wall-walking redhead. :D

But humor aside, Oldfart is correct in that a good many of us know/fear that there will/may come a day when we have no choice as a free people but to shot some of our fellow citizens who happen to be in the employ of our own .gov, or surrender to a life time of servitude and tyranny for ourselves and our posterity. I'd rather that that evil day never comes, and in my humble opinion one way to ensure it never happens is for our 'leaders' and their agents to know well and true that there are folks in this country who WILL take to '...shooting the bastards' if pressed. Speaking such on public forums such as THR, which are likely monitored and cataloged, is one way of letting our 'leaders' and their agents know this.
 
Don't under estimate us old, fat, slow, farts- Age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm!
 
Biere -
So you are unwilling to move to be free, but are fine watching the people you love be torn apart by a 20mm gatling gun? You would rather have a revolt that, if "successful", will cause immense starvation and widespread destruction? If it fails, then the government has more reasons to take our guns. Unwilling to move, but willing to shoot.

Once freedom is achieved in one state, and that state becomes a powerhouse, then other states will want to emulate it's success.
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priv8ter -
The plan for fighting when you are strongest certainly applies here but the problem is that your strength is not measured only by the ammunition capacity of your magazine, but it is really like strength = (firepower/person) x committed people x communications^2

The reality is that we would probably achieve more by laying down in front of a tank, than by shooting at the tank commander's best friend. At least as long as there is humanity in the average tank commander. And when it is gone, then they would just go all dresden on our asses.
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stevelyn -
There are so many differences between what you mentioned and what a revolter's situation would be, I cannot believe that you have thought about it for more than ten minutes. If you would really like me to I can illustrate it, but I think that you will be able to see it on your own.

The military WILL shoot a bunch of "Domestic Terrorists" who are shooting at them. Have no doubt. Shoot at them and they will not hesitate. You will die.
 
Oldfart, that was an exceptionally insulting post that expressed nothing of any great merit. Congratulations.
 
Free Staters agree

I do not think that I have seen a single socialist among all the FSPers that I have met. I have met anarchists, minarchists, libertarians, conservatives, christians, pagans, and athiests. What is amazing is that with perhaps half a dozen (very vocal) exceptions, we are working together to build a better state where we have many magnitudes more freedom.

I would ask that you not be put off by the arguers, count them. I would say that there are maybe six. That is one in one thousand. There are thousands of volunteers who are working with their local groups to make this happen.

We all agree that the government needs to be reduced by about two thirds. I cannot see how that could ever be considered socialist.
 
DW,

The idea is not to have to engage the military. I can't see the military as being the "enemy". The enemy is further up the food chain than the military. Hopefully, if the time ever came to shoot, conditions will have deteriorated to the point that even the military was suffering and could see the problem and not engage the citizenry but safeguard the borders and skies from outsiders.

BTW I support the concept of the FSP and hope it's a success. But in following your line of logic, once you start becoming too independent of the Great Benevolent Father on the Potomac, they will work to shut it down and discourage others from trying the same thing. It will start with the federal bribes being withdrawn as punishment. Then mysterious events occurring to the leaders. Then end with a proactive campaign shut down dissent. Kind of a reconstruction and occupation.
 
Because it's so much more fun to fantasize about being Rambo than to fanstasize about writing your legislators.
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o my god, rationality, begone o destroyer of internet machoness, begone!

Justin, we all fantasize about being Rambo. Some more than others, but we all do it. Otherwise, why bother to own guns?
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Um I can think of a hundered reasons other than overt or subconsious mall ninjaness...soryy you cant

No, back in the farthest corners of our minds, we all know that someday-- not today and not tomorrow, but someday-- we're going to have to shoot some government agents
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Not in my mind since Ive never been diagnosed with one of the conditions set forth in the DSM....if you really beleive that I suggest to seek help...

WildthesunisshinigAlaska
 
Steve -
Thanks for the moral support. If and when the Fed decides to take away Federal Funding, they will be in for a hell of a surprise from the granite staters. See there is an intersting statistic
New Hampshire taxpayers receive among the least amount of federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid. Per dollar of federal tax collected in 2002, New Hampshire citizens received approximately $0.66 in the way of federal spending. This ranks the state 3rd lowest among all states.
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http://www.taxfoundation.org/newhampshire/

What would you think the state legislature would do? I figure if they recommend that their citizens withhold paying one third of their taxes for one week, the fed would get the message.

Another reason New Hampshire was picked: it does not suck on the Federal teat.
 
Your relative unwillingness to defend the 2A is well noted, Wild. Sorry, it just is.

Any thinking person knows the day will come. And the fact is it may well NOT be a 2A issue that provokes it. It could well be taxation, land grabs or even a martial law situation "justified" by terrorist attack or natural disaster. No nation endures forever. They all fall. The US is no different and certainly is not immune. I can't imagine anyone actually thinks this nation is eternal.

The only real questions are when will it happen and, most importantly, what comes after? Regardless of whatever provokes revolt in the US, and whenever it happens, I hope people think beyond the fight to what they intend to build afterwards and HOW they will build it. That's what made our Revolution different from most. A lack of such forethought is what will make the next one a hopeless mess like most others.
 
Your relative unwillingness to defend the 2A is well noted, Wild. Sorry, it just is.
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Y a mean my well known unwillingness to spout rambo rhetoric on the internet dont ya? Or my lack of toleration for internet freedom commandos?

But here lets see now, tell us what you have done to defend the 2nd am in the past few months?? Hmmm???

Any thinking person knows the day will come.
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For revolt? Hmm I guess I dont think then becasue I dont know that a revolt will come...

WildbetyamutantzombiesattackAlaska
 
What have I done? Contributed to the Republican Party, assisted in a dinner for one of the strongest pro-gun House Republicans, wrote letters to Congress Critters, debated the issue publicly AND initiated the formation of what I hope will become a viable Third Party(probably a pipe-dream, true) among other things. What have YOU done?

You don't think revolt will ever come? Then you believe the US will endure for all eternity, satisfying all the public to a sufficient degree they never, ever, even once, get fed up and throw the bastards out by whatever means available? Eternity is a long time, Wild...
 
Justin, we all fantasize about being Rambo. Some more than others, but we all do it. Otherwise, why bother to own guns? If it might be because we enjoy the shiny metal, then why the camo? If it's because (as some suggest) it makes us feel more masculine, then why do women also own guns?
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I find this pretty dang funny. Some of us have actually had to use weapons in a war already and are not in any hurry to do it again. We do not sit around fantasizing about being Rambo. Not at all. Not ever.

Then again, I liked doing it in the Marine Corps so much that I got out and became a nurse. I guess I must just be secure enough in my manhood to not need to sit around fantasizing about stuff I sincerely hope never happens.


FWIW, just the other day I was shooting with a fellow HighRoader and this exact subject came up. It turns out P0832177 also is secure enough in his manhood to not need to fantasize about that kind of crap as well. In fact, he can vouch for the fact that I love to wear boonie hats, and, despite having several cammie ones from when I was in the Corps, when going shooting I somehow seem to always have on my Columbia boonie hat. Gee, I also was wearing brown hiking boots instead of the combat boots I have in the closet, and, you guessed it, Columbia shorts instead of the BDU pants that are also in the closet.

Maybe I own guns for self-defense, hunting, and personal enjoyment.
 
I support the concept of the FSP and hope it's a success. But in following your line of logic, once you start becoming too independent of the Great Benevolent Father on the Potomac, they will work to shut it down and discourage others from trying the same thing. It will start with the federal bribes being withdrawn as punishment.
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Exactly my thoughts.
 
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