C96 Mauser stock!

IF we are going to do comic book Mausers then I vote for Mike Grell's Jon Sable Freelance. He carried one of the Chinese .45 ACP though.

Tinker,

Have you considered changing the pistol grips to a lighter color instead?

Neat gun and stock. Thanks for posting.

-kBob
 
kBob said:
IF we are going to do comic book Mausers then I vote for Mike Grell's Jon Sable Freelance. He carried one of the Chinese .45 ACP though.

Tinker,

Have you considered changing the pistol grips to a lighter color instead?

Neat gun and stock. Thanks for posting.

-kBob
Click to expand...

I was a big Jon Sable fan, and we had horses boarded at their Lake Stevens property back in the day. We worked on one of the same projects for 47 North more recently. Interesting guy.

I thought about changing the grips, but I want to refinish the stock anyway, so I might as well dye it at the time. Going to use leather dye, which has given good results with this wood in the past, then lacquer it and see what happens.
 
Michael Tinker Pearce said:
Odd Job said:
I think the legality of the stock is an important topic, but probably best dealt with in its own thread in Legal.
Click to expand...

You're the boss! I'll discontinue this line of discussion on this thread.

I will advise readers of this- it would be prudent to check with ATF directly on this question before mounting this stock on your pistol, or at very least rely on your own research into the subject rather than simply accepting my word for it.
Click to expand...

I agree with Odd Job and want to emphasize the importance of getting solid information whenever dealing with anything that could possibly be an NFA issue.

The penalty for an NFA violation is up to 10 years in federal prison and/or up to a $10,000.00 fine. In addition, if the violation is found to have been a willful attempt to evade the NFA tax, that would be an additional felony punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and/or a $100,000.00 (which could be increased to $250,000.00) fine. A conviction for an NFA violation will also result in a lifetime loss of gun rights.

NFA compliance can be a hassle and expensive. Getting caught committing an NFA violation is an exponentially greater hassle and expense, and a possibly life destroying event.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
...If sanded it will get fuzzy...If you strip 5he old finish off, do not sand the stock. Bone it with a hard wood dowel or an old smooth rib bone. This will compress the surface making it more resistance to dings and dents, and give you a smooth surface...View attachment 931765
Click to expand...

How does this wood work to scrape in your experience? I mostly don't do gun work, but lots of other wood working. I rather love scrapers, and have found they tend to work well to finish quite smoothly wood that, due to species or condition, will not sand, including some cheap foreign species (such as when repurposing crates and pallets).
 
Frank Ettin said:
I agree with Odd Job and want to emphasize the importance of getting solid information whenever dealing with anything that could possibly be an NFA issue.

The penalty for an NFA violation is up to 10 years in federal prison and/or up to a $10,000.00 fine. In addition, if the violation is found to have been a willful attempt to evade the NFA tax, that would be an additional felony punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and/or a $100,000.00 (which could be increased to $250,000.00) fine. A conviction for an NFA violation will also result in a lifetime loss of gun rights.

NFA compliance can be a hassle and expensive. Getting caught committing an NFA violation is an exponentially greater hassle and expense, and a possibly life destroying event.
Click to expand...

I am confident in my research, but no one else should be. At this point the stock is now a holster until I have a definitive answer directly from ATF or have SBR'd it. Not going to take chances.
 
Huh- with a very quick and easy web search I found this from our own High Road forum- a letter from one of our own members dated 2002.
ISvrTMi.gif
I'll keep looking for more recent letters, and am still likely to make an inquiry with ATF.
 
Tinker pearce, the sword guy??? Good heavens I was one of your biggest fans in the early 2000's.I remember contacting someone about one of your swords when I was a younger man in the Australian army in about 2000. It was some short, broad, fullered sword that you had shortened drastically for some reason(which turned it into an absolute beast of a short sword) Cant remember if you were selling it yourself, or some reseller had it for sale but in the end I had to pull out due to finances. Sorry for the thread hijack, just a blast from the past seeing you here. I remember all the other companies at the time- Kev Cashen, Al massey, the Salamander Armory guy, Kris cultlery... :)
 
trekker73 said:
Tinker pearce, the sword guy??? Good heavens I was one of your biggest fans in the early 2000's.I remember contacting someone about one of your swords when I was a younger man in the Australian army in about 2000. It was some short, broad, fullered sword that you had shortened drastically for some reason(which turned it into an absolute beast of a short sword) Cant remember if you were selling it yourself, or some reseller had it for sale but in the end I had to pull out due to finances. Sorry for the thread hijack, just a blast from the past seeing you here. I remember all the other companies at the time- Kev Cashen, Al massey, the Salamander Armory guy, Kris cultlery... :)
Click to expand...

Yep, still the sword guy! I'm still making knives and swords, just a little slower than I used to. :)
 
Cool, just looked at some of your swords.. Very very very nice.. Hey strike that idea of putting the extra Broomhandle in the back of your stock as a backup.. Put that Khukuri in the stock as a backup.. Now that would be Boss..
 
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shoobe01 said:
How does this wood work to scrape in your experience? I mostly don't do gun work, but lots of other wood working. I rather love scrapers, and have found they tend to work well to finish quite smoothly wood that, due to species or condition, will not sand, including some cheap foreign species (such as when repurposing crates and pallets).
Click to expand...
Scraping removes wood, not a good thing when restoring unless you’re trying to make it look new. Chu Wood is a little on the soft side with strong fibers, not sure how it would react to scraping.
 
I was referring to you mentioning sanding, I thought.

Fibers are to be noted. Back of my head if it comes up.
 
Yesterday, I found this ATF post:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/if-...shoulder-stock-does-constitute-possession-nfa

If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?

Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.

[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]

Last Reviewed April 13, 2020
 
Post # 22 in this thread .

upload_2021-8-30_7-33-2.png

rbobbitt said:
Yesterday, I found this ATF post:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/if-...shoulder-stock-does-constitute-possession-nfa

If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?

Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.

[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]

Last Reviewed April 13, 2020
Click to expand...
 
rbobbitt said:
However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items.
Click to expand...
See here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center...stpdf/download?destination=file/2026/download
(Section II begins at Page 36 of the pdf; Mauser "Broomhandles" are on Page 39)
Mauser, Commercial Luger Artillery model semiautomatic pistols cal. 9mm, Mauser banner marked, produced under contract for the Royal Thai Police accompanied by original, German mfd., detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Mauser, Model 1896 semiautomatic pistol accompanied by original German mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks, all semiautomatic German mfd. variations produced prior to 1940, any caliber.
Mauser, Pistol-Carbine, model 1896, 7.63mm, with shoulder stock and 11-3/4" to 16" barrel. Mauser, Model 1902, 6 and 10 shot magazine capacity, semiautomatic pistols in cal. 7.63 x 25mm (.30 Mauser), having the distinctive hammer safety, barrel lengths of either 3.9 or 5.5", and accompanied by an original detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Mauser, Model 1912/14 pistol, 9mm Mauser short or .45 ACP, with original detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock and 5" barrel.
Mauser Parabellum 75th Year Commemorative Luger Karabiner with accompanying shoulder stock.
Click to expand...
 
Color me confused.
The ATF's new Curios or Relics List says the C96 with shoulder stock has been removed from the NFA but is still subject to the Gun Control Act. The Gun Control Act seems to define the C96 with shoulder stock attached as a short-barreled rifle – does it? There are all sorts of regulations governing SBRs – so if the C96 with shoulder stock is an SBR, what changed?
Cheers,
Rosser
---
https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download
Curios or Relics List — January 1972 through April 2018
See: "Section III — Firearms removed from the provisions of the National Firearms Act and classified as curios or relics, still subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968."
In Section III (on page 44): "Mauser, Model 1896, semiautomatic pistol, as produced by Mauser prior to 1940 accompanied by original German mfd. detachable holster/shoulder stocks, any cal."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-44
18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968
18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions. "(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."
 
rbobbitt said:
Gun Control Act seems to define the C96 with shoulder stock attached as a short-barreled rifle – does it?
Click to expand...
Ah, no, that's a "rifle" modified to be shorter, not a pistol made to be longer (per NFA).
The "shoulder stock exception" has been around a long time--but, it was originally read to mean "shoulder stocks issued with [a specific] pistol." That interpretation was changed (late 80s/early 90s, IIRC) that you need not have a serialized stock. Some of that was from the flood of fake stocks out there that would make it near impossible to verify that a given one was "original" to the firearm.

That actually allowed people to install stocks on slotted High-Powers (but only the C&R aged ones).

Unless I'm remembering this wrong (which is possible).
 
I went to great length s of buying a genuine Inglis High Power Chinese contract stock for my Chinese contract Inglis. That was in the 90 s. I had to go to Canada and bring it back. I still have it and it is legal everywhere including Ca. with 10 round mags. I have it in Oregon currently with very nicely functioning Korean 30 round mags :) Also I had a 1920 s Bolo that came back from China , with stock and it had a reddish stock that was called " camphor" wood. It was old but probably post WW2. The metal work fit well and a full sized Broom handle wouldn't fit.
I sold the Bolo decades later for quite alot, after having it rebuilt into a 9mm by the old Oyster Bay company that specialized in Mauser Pistols and had old German Ordinance guy at it's helm.
 
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Just to confirm: In a recent exchange with the BATF Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division, it seems I am clear to own a C96 with newly manufactured shoulder stock holster. PDF copy of email exchange attached.

My email to the BATF: Is a Mauser C96 with newly manufactured original-design detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock a short barrel rifle covered by the National Firearms Act?
Or is it a curio or relic and not covered by the NFA?

BATF response: It has been long considered that although men6oned that the original stock is needed in conjunc6on specifically to the ORIGINAL Mauser 1896 pistols. EXACT and IDENTICAL replica stock assemblies have been allowed so long as the “C96” was originally made to allow its installa6on by the manufacture (Mauser).

Edited by Odd Job: see redacted email in next post, personal details have been removed
 
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