Selling a SBR
- Thread starter aandrews
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AlexanderA
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If it's an AR type firearm (with an upper receiver and a lower that's registered as the SBR), the best way to sell it is to convert it to a Title I firearm and notify the ATF to take it off the registry. Then just sell it normally.
Filing a Form 4 to sell it as an SBR doesn't make sense. (There's the tax, and the months-long delay.) BTW, the transferor files the Form 4 and not the transferee.
After he receives it, the buyer can file a Form 1 to convert it back into an SBR.
Filing a Form 4 to sell it as an SBR doesn't make sense. (There's the tax, and the months-long delay.) BTW, the transferor files the Form 4 and not the transferee.
After he receives it, the buyer can file a Form 1 to convert it back into an SBR.
BreechFace
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If its an AR, buy a stripped lower and place all parts of said SBR into the stripped lower put a brace on it and sell it as a Title I pistol. Now you have a $250 paperweight, which is your stripped SBR'd lower and tax stamp paperwork.
All of this is based on the idea that the lower receiver is the SBR'd item on the firearm. Some people SBR the barrel. Don't want to assume anything here.
If this isn't an AR platform then this is a different conversation as a whole because likely your best option is to consign it at a NFA dealer and be prepared to lose a lot of value to get it sold.
All of this is based on the idea that the lower receiver is the SBR'd item on the firearm. Some people SBR the barrel. Don't want to assume anything here.
If this isn't an AR platform then this is a different conversation as a whole because likely your best option is to consign it at a NFA dealer and be prepared to lose a lot of value to get it sold.
dogtown tom
Member
Oh heck no its not the same.
Exact same NFA regulations apply to all transfers of NFA firearms.
No matter if buyer or seller sends in the Form 4, the approved F4 with tax stamp affixed will be mailed to the transferor (seller). ONLY THEN can the buyer take possession.
Simply applying doesn't mean anything. Approval by means of an NFA tax stamp is required.
If selling to an in state buyer, no FFL/SOT is required under federal law.
If selling to an out of state buyer, it will take one Form 4 ($200 tax stamp) to transfer to an FFL in the buyers state AND another Form 4 ($200 tax stamp) to transfer from that FFL to the transferee (buyer).
Unless its a rare or factory SBR, the buyer can avoid the wait by making his own SBR via an eForm 1 and he should have a wait of less than a month vs a F4 wait of seven months or more.......for each stamp.
dogtown tom
Member
ATF does not remove firearms from the registry, they merely make a notation that the SBR is no longer in NFA configuration.
It does if its a rare or factory SBR. Many buyers do not want "AlexanderA Family NFA Gun Trust, Somewhere, VA" engraved on their firearm.
Either one can "file" or mail in the completed form.
And...........he has to engrave it again with HIS name and location as the maker. That's gonna be a lot of engraving.
dogtown tom
Member
Oh good grief. There is so much wrong with this post.......
1. You cannot "SBR" a stripped lower. A stripped lower is not an NFA firearm unless it's from a machine gun.
2. You cannot "SBR" a barrel.
3. You are confusing NFA marking requirements with what defines an NFA firearm.
4. "Consign" an NFA firearm?
Yeah, that's a Form 4 to transfer to that dealer. Takes about 7-8 months. For a $25,000 machine gun no big deal but not the best idea for a $1,200 AR15.Oh good grief. There is so much wrong with this post.......
1. You cannot "SBR" a stripped lower. A stripped lower is not an NFA firearm unless it's from a machine gun.
2. You cannot "SBR" a barrel.
3. You are confusing NFA marking requirements with what defines an NFA firearm.
4. "Consign" an NFA firearm?
My question has been answered, though, which should've been stated as: If you a sell a registered SBR to a private party in the customary manner - X dollars (cash); no papers - are you wading off into illegality? It seems that would be the case. And it also seems the corollary is, registered SBRs (or SBRs period) are a pain to sell.
Thanks for all the responses.
dogtown tom
Member
All three replies you've received explain how EASY it is to sell an SBR...........you don't sell it as an SBR, but sell it in parts....not configured as an SBR. ATF loves to be notified, but no regulation requires it.
Remove the barreled upper from the lower, replace the short barreled upper with a 16" barrelled upper and you have a Title I rifle.
Sell the lower receiver separately from the upper. An SBR "lower" is not an NFA firearm unless it has a barreled upper attached and a bbl length of 16" or OAL of 26".
AlexanderA
Member
Yes, but the transferor is considered the "taxpayer" in the transaction. He's in possession of the gun and is the person to whom the ATF has recourse.
dogtown tom
Member
Again, ATF has no idea who mailed/submitted/sent/applied or otherwise delivered the Form 4, so it CAN be submitted by transferor or transferee. ATF doesn't give a rats hiney who submitted.
And ATF sure as heck has recourse against anyone in possession of an NFA firearm, whether legally or illegally.
AlexanderA
Member
I remember (from back when I was doing this as a dealer) that the ATF insisted that the check (for the tax) had to be from the transferor. "Recourse" means going after someone for the tax. (The way this would work in practice would be that the buyer would add the tax to the price paid for the gun, and then the dealer would cut his own check to the ATF for the tax.) Maybe this has changed.
Since the transferor is the one currently in possession of the gun, that's the person who is applying for the transfer. It doesn't matter who actually does the mailing.
Theohazard
Member
Interesting. My experience both buying NFA items for myself and selling them as a gun shop employee started in 2012. In my experience, the ATF doesn't care who pays for the tax stamp. Heck, my first tax stamp was paid for by a personal check from my buddy (who wasn’t involved with the Form 4 at all) and I gave him cash; I didn’t want my wife to see it.
AlexanderA
Member
Very surprising that the ATF would accept a third-party check. I don't believe the IRS would.
dogtown tom
Member
If that was the case, Silencer Shop has been doing it wrong about 10,000 times a year.
ATF accepts credit cards from anyone.
ATF accepts checks from any person or business.
ATF accepts USPS money orders from anyone.
ATF ain't the IRS.
If they were "particular" then Silencer Shop is in for a surprise. In ten years of being an SOT I have yet to pay for a single tax stamp I transferred via my credit card, my business check, my personal check or a money order. That's a few thousand tax stamps.
And you would be surprised why ATF DOESN'T KNOW WHO WROTE THE CHECK........they never see payment info. Thats stripped out by U.S. Bank in Portland, OR before being sent to NFA Branch. (previously sent to Bank of America in Atlanta)
AlexanderA
Member
My experience was from the 1980's. Apparently the ATF procedures have changed.
Around the same time, the ATF ruled that FA AR-15 bolt carriers were among the FA parts that were not supposed to be found in semiauto guns. That policy has changed too.
ATF has historically been consistent in its inconsistency.
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