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Francotte Martini Henry

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browningguy

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Well I'm investigating my little 1/2 size Martini rifle in .300 Sherwood that I imported from South Africa about 10 years ago. I'll tell you what I know and maybe someone can help with what I don't. The .300 Sherwood was a decent target and rook rifle cartridge in it's day, invented by Westley Richards in 1901 firing a 140 grain lead bullet at 1400 fps. It's basically just a lengthened .300 Rook, similar to the difference between a 38 Special and a 357 Magnum. The actual bullet diameter is .300".
francotte 5.jpg francotte 6.jpg
The overall rifle is in the Cadet style that Francotte sold as military trainers to many countries, usually in 297/300 or something similar. This one is in .300 Sherwood with the barrel being marked 300 SH 7.3. The only markings on the exterior of the action are the Francottes Patent in a circle and the serial number (which matches the sn on the drop out action itself, and then Francottes Patent on the actual take down lever. So this leads me to believe it's probably a complete Francotte rifle but barrelled/rebarrelled elsewhere? See final paragraph for more.

francotte 1.jpg

The right side of the trigger assembly after removal, simply move the outer lever down and pull the action out. This has the matching serial number and Francottes Patent marking, and the little silver piece center top is marked Francottes Indicator and is a cocked action indicator. Very clever really.

francotte 2.jpg francotte 4.jpg

The left side of the action has a mark lower left Stamped Steel with Crown/AF/C inside that, this is just the August Francotte Company mark. On the right side of this image you can see the action proof marks, *BB should be the proof masters mark but I don't have any references listing BB. Lion over P.V is the Liege Belgium proof mark, then the Perron indicating proof of the breech system.

francotte 7.jpg

And most mysterious of all the top of the barrel and on to the action is marked WR435 11. What the heck??? Well this weekend I'll continue disassembly and get the stock off to see what else might be marked on the barrel. Hopefully this will help me determine if it has been rebarreled or not.
 
A great find! These are getting much harder to come by over time.

My Francotte Cadet has a very similar action and markings, minus the cool takedown pin on your's -- mine has a simple split pin. It had lead a very hard life before I bought it from Jansa in Australia for the action. Here's what the receiver looked like after polishing out the worst of the pitting but before parkerizing:

CadetWIP03.jpg

I had to make a new stock and had a reworked FN Mauser barrel fitted for a custom chambering (.357 Magnum necked to take 308 bullets using a .30 Mauser die.) Not the greatest sighting arrangement, but shoots pretty good now.

ShadowCaster.jpg

The WR is new to me, and I wonder if it refers to Westley Richards? They manufactured a goodly number of Cadets and possibly rebarrelled yours -- just a wild guess. I found someone on an old forum posting referring to a WR number as some kind of rack number, but it was located on the buttstock on the Cadet in question.

If you can't get a solid answer here, try emailing the Australian War Memorial for advice. Here's a Cadet example from their collection: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C245363

Let me know if you need reloading info on the 300 Sherwood -- I have a copy of Colin Greenwood's book Classic Rook and Rabbit Rifles.
 
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browningguy said:
Well I'm investigating my little 1/2 size Martini rifle in .300 Sherwood that I imported from South Africa about 10 years ago. I'll tell you what I know and maybe someone can help with what I don't. The .300 Sherwood was a decent target and rook rifle cartridge in it's day, invented by Westley Richards in 1901 firing a 140 grain lead bullet at 1400 fps. It's basically just a lengthened .300 Rook, similar to the difference between a 38 Special and a 357 Magnum. The actual bullet diameter is .300".
View attachment 953508 View attachment 953509
The overall rifle is in the Cadet style that Francotte sold as military trainers to many countries, usually in 297/300 or something similar. This one is in .300 Sherwood with the barrel being marked 300 SH 7.3. The only markings on the exterior of the action are the Francottes Patent in a circle and the serial number (which matches the sn on the drop out action itself, and then Francottes Patent on the actual take down lever. So this leads me to believe it's probably a complete Francotte rifle but barrelled/rebarrelled elsewhere? See final paragraph for more.

View attachment 953512

The right side of the trigger assembly after removal, simply move the outer lever down and pull the action out. This has the matching serial number and Francottes Patent marking, and the little silver piece center top is marked Francottes Indicator and is a cocked action indicator. Very clever really.

View attachment 953514 View attachment 953515

The left side of the action has a mark lower left Stamped Steel with Crown/AF/C inside that, this is just the August Francotte Company mark. On the right side of this image you can see the action proof marks, *BB should be the proof masters mark but I don't have any references listing BB. Lion over P.V is the Liege Belgium proof mark, then the Perron indicating proof of the breech system.

View attachment 953521

And most mysterious of all the top of the barrel and on to the action is marked WR435 11. What the heck??? Well this weekend I'll continue disassembly and get the stock off to see what else might be marked on the barrel. Hopefully this will help me determine if it has been rebarreled or not.
Click to expand...


Beautiful rifle.. Would not mind seeing a full length shot (please)... Do love The names of those Calibers.. Would be a pleasure to walk in a store and ask for some Sherwood or Rook rounds..
 
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The Damko action is supposed to be pretty nice, but for that price I would go with a Ruger No. 1 action to be honest, but if you are looking for something that's different it would be good.

I haven't taken a full length pic of this one yet but here it is with a couple of it's brothers. The one on top is the 300 Sherwood and the lower two are 380 Long sporters, note the center one isn't actually a Martini action, I have no idea what it really is.

martinis.jpg
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Both are awesome! Would love to find a .303 or .22 Martini someday.........sigh.
Click to expand...

My 1876 Martini-Henry action had been converted to .303 in 1900. When I reused the action yet again, the simplest choice was to go with .44 Magnum. The rim dimensions of .44 and .303 are close enough not to require alteration, and Numrich had some new .44 barrels available cheap back then, made by Astra in Spain for Garcia's rolling block carbines. It probably extracts the relative short .44 brass far better than either .577/450 or .303.

Marteenie.jpg Receiver.JPG

Still hoping to find a nice BSA .22 Martini someday, and maybe a Greener Martini shotgun.
 
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browningguy said:
Note the center one isn't actually a Martini action, I have no idea what it really is.
Click to expand...

Looks very interesting -- hope you'll do a posting on it someday too!

Clearly you've already got the measure of the .300 Sherwood cartridge. Who was the maker on your other miniature Martini? Looks like another beaut!
 
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I don't know the manufacturer on the bottom two rifles, there are Belgian proof marks on the barrels of both but I still have to completely disassemble the actions to see if there are any marks internally as clues.
 
My Martini-Henry rifles and carbine eject the 577-450 with authority.
I can only imagine how they eject the lighter cases with even more authority.

The Greener 14ga regular one is fun. Just wrap a 16ga shell with a bit of construction paper a bit.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
My 1876 Martini-Henry action had been converted to .303 in 1900. When I reused the action yet again, the simplest choice was to go with .44 Magnum. The rim dimensions of .44 and .303 are close enough not to require alteration, and Numrich had some new .44 barrels available cheap back then, made by Astra in Spain for Garcia's rolling block carbines. It probably extracts the relative short .44 brass far better than either .577/450 or .303.

View attachment 953578View attachment 953581

Still hoping to find a nice BSA .22 Martini someday, and maybe a Greener Martini shotgun.
Click to expand...


Love the 303 converted Martini-Henry, At one time I remember people looking down on the 303s because they were not original caliber.. (Oh Yeah and more then a few were shot the hell out of) But now you can find more Original caliber rifles then the 303s.

I always liked the 303 versions because ammo was readily available.

22s are nice
 
Browningguy and Dave DeLaurant
You guys bring back 37 years on my life, the (Francotte) Martini-Henry I had was given as a present when went high school for my family dentist (also mentor later in life) along several Belgium Shotguns that filled the gun rucks walls of my room.
I've had put on it hundred if not thousand of 22 rounds on his loose stock and crooked front sight, at my backyard.
One round at the time, was not a big deal, funny enough to spend week ends, shooting cans at my mother backyard.
Congrats to both of you beautiful rifles, if another Martini-Francote 22 cal only cross my path I don't paying those prices.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
Thanks to a different posting by Indy this week, I came across this interesting short video about a Westley Richards military Martini made on contract for the Boer ZAR that also features the Francotte system:

Click to expand...


That was Spellbinding and Mind blowing...

God so many guns so little time...

Here is one for sale, not a horrible price, when you consider

https://antiquearmscollector.com/product/westley-richards-z-a-r-martini-henry-rifle-a3110/

Khyber pass Martinis are fetching 400+ or so (and they are being made still)
303 converts are fetching 600+
Normal Martinis are pushing the 1k mark or over

Yeah it 2k, but its in a high tone selling site and not to many to start with
 
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I should have looked harder, I was hoping to find one cheaper... Most the darn good Boar rifles are in England, Canada, New Zealand and Australia...Oh yeah also South Africa (Go figure :) )

And sir you are right shipping and imports will be a killer...
 
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I really enjoy my Commonwealth of Australia, BSA made, .310 Martini Cadet.

It truly is a great firearm to introduce kids to rifle marksmanship. No recoil, no muzzle blast, light weight, perfectly ballanced, no fancy action, great sights.

Reloading for it has been especially rewarding using PPU 7.62 Nagant revolver brass (after buying the $80 RCBS heeled bullet mold, and $160 English dies.) Powder coating the projectile takes care of the icky-sticky externally lubed problem.

I have been collecting parts to return a couple of bubbaed Cadets back to original caliber and furniture, does anyone know how much torque the barrel requires?
Is there a rule of thumb where the barrel should hand time to before torquing?

And the best news is the wife's garden is now well protected from any roo's that make it through the dingo fence!
 
Bwana John said:
Reloading for it has been especially rewarding using PPU 7.62 Nagant revolver brass (after buying the $80 RCBS heeled bullet mold, and $160 English dies.) Powder coating the projectile takes care of the icky-sticky externally lubed problem.
Click to expand...

Brilliant -- I thought powder coating might be the ideal solution for heeled bullets! Before I sold off my last .41 Colt revolver I was seriously looking into this -- even bought a heeled bullet mould, but couldn't find a local smith to fix my revolver's action and finally threw in the towel.
 
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