38 snub +P self defense handloads.

Technically, none of your reloads, Use factory, but then that opens up that big can of worms.
Perhaps do some research as it is a very Broad question. There are hundreds of 38 +P and others load combinations!

+P loads can be fairly stout in a lightweight J frame; that said both Hodgdon and Alliant have load data.

5.5gr of Powerpistol

If you are hand loading, about as much as you can stand. Find your own balance of power on that end and recoil on this end.

Rule3 said:

Technically, none of your reloads, Use factory, but then that opens up that big can of worms.
Perhaps do some research as it is a very Broad question. There are hundreds of 38 +P and others load combinations!

Click to expand...

Don't want to open the can, but let's say that someone is a new gun owner and can't get any ammo that's marketed for defense because there's a shortage and are stuck with practice ammunition that are subpar options or are stuck with ammunition that is advertised as defense ammo, but is known to not work effectively (which most 158gr bullets don't when shot from a snub) what options do people have? If the only ammunition someone can get that they know works is what they can make themselves, I'd say go for it. It's better to be unharmed and on trial than in a hospital bed and not on trial, isn't it?

If you're using a Speer bullet you're gonna get significant leading in the bore. I guess that's fine if you're only putting 5 to 10 rounds thru it while carrying, but by the last few shots your accuracy is going to be degraded. Even with a max load, I question whether or not the bullet will expand.

Those lead Speer bullets all seem to be meant for velocities of 750 or less. That's about the point where I've noticed the leading is minimal to non-existent.

As for powder, use Power Pistol. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite powders for .32 Mag and .38 revolvers.

148 hbwc. How can a prosecutor complain about a citizen using "target" loads with the intent to main and do grevous harm. Just load them by the book. I'd suggest forgetting which end goes down but that would be irresponsible.
Fifty years ago the LE boys in my area carried these in their Chiefs and Undercovers.

What powders do you have access to first of all?

Stupid question are you picking that because it's the only bullets you can get? I would be looking at the 140 hornady xtp for more velosity and known good expansion. The heavy may be what you want just spitballing

Tried to find your location what state?

I just loaded some 158 XTP's on top of 5.5 gr. of AA #5. It's not hot rod fast, but enough to expand them.

For a 1 7/8" S&W 36 I like 3.5-3.6gr of Bullseye with a discontinued Speer bevel base wad cutter. When looking for a +P velocity with a 158gr cast bullet of around 12 BHN I like VV N-340 or WSF.

My older charter Arms Undercover in stainless shoots to point of aim with 148 gr wadcutters as well as 158 gr swc.
So that is the round I'll stick with for now. Unless you file the front sight down and go with 110gr hp treasurey loads, not much else will expand.

I bought some bevel base 148 gr coated wadcutters and will load close to the max load with both Bullseye and Unique from an older Speer or Lyman manual and check for accuracy. I'd do the same with 158s if that is what I had.

Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition tested with universal receiver and 4" barrel lists

158 grain (Linotype) #358156 with 1.460" OAL
4.0 Bullseye @ 16,000psi max, 858; and 4.4 Bullseye @ 18,100psi for + 915
5.1 Unique @ 16,100psi max 895; and 5.4 Unique @ 18,000psi for +P 954
4.7 231 @16,800psi max 885; and 5.0 231 @ 18,000psi for +P 934
3.9 HP38 @ 16,300psi max 854; and 4.1 HP38 @ 17,800psi for +P 882

The good old FBI carried 38+p for probably longer than any cartridge.
I think 38+p is a great load for SD, very controllable.
With a short barrel, faster powders like WIN 231 are great. Power pistol is very flashy out of a snubbie (flashy powder in general), so for defensive use id keep that in mind. There are powders like BE-86 that contain flash suppressants.
Anything 125-158 grains with either a LSWC-HP
Or a JHP will do just dandy. Lots and lots of data out there on this. LOTS!
And projectiles like Hornady XTPs are advertised as "for defensive use" even as a component and not loaded ammunition. Another thing to keep in mind.

I think if you stick with published data, it will be hard to find a load you DONT like.

I use a lot of Unique in my .38’s, the 5.2 gr load and a 158 gr bullet is about the max I can enjoy in my Colt Cobra 2”.

My fav .38 target load is 4.5 gr Unique under the 158 gr SWC.

My fav beginner/training load is 3.5 gr Unique under a 148 gr RNL or WC bullet. (I like the RN because it’s easier to insert in a cylinder... especially with speedloaders.)

Stay safe.

.....and be thankful your SNUB is not aluminum/titanium/scandium framed! Quite possibly the nastiest handcannon configurations to shoot. Twist AND recoil....

entropy said:

I just loaded some 158 XTP's on top of 5.5 gr. of AA #5. It's not hot rod fast, but enough to expand them.

Click to expand...

Accurate #5 is good powder for upper end 38 spl but it is a dense powder with low case fill.
powder.pdf

5 grains of Unique is about the limit on what I think is reasonable with a 158 grain SWCHP in a light weight snub. Maybe you could push it a bit more, but you would have to try it to see what you think.

PapaG said:

148 hbwc. How can a prosecutor complain about a citizen using "target" loads with the intent to main and do grevous harm. Just load them to max book. I'd suggest forgetting which end house down but that would be irresponsible.
Fifty years ago the LE boys in my area carried these in their Chiefs and Undercovers.

Click to expand...

I still carry 148 gr hbwc in a j frame 38. Decent penetration, easy on you and the revolver, and the bullet is already in an efficient shape.

No need to load to max. Target velocities work fine.

AJC1 said:

Stupid question are you picking that because it's the only bullets you can get? I would be looking at the 140 hornady xtp for more velosity and known good expansion. The heavy may be what you want just spitballing

Tried to find your location what state?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't do 140gr, that's still pretty heavy for a snub .38. The max weight I'd do is 125gr for a hollow point in a snub .38, but what I have most confidence in for a .38 snub to expand is 110gr or below. Problem going that low is penetration becomes a concern, but it's a proven expander with a short barrel.

This is one of several reasons I prefer a .32 Mag snub to a .38 snub.

GRIZ22 said:

I still carry 148 gr hbwc in a j frame 38. Decent penetration, easy on you and the revolver, and the bullet is already in an efficient shape.

No need to load to max. Target velocities work fine.

Click to expand...

I agree and for the snub .38 I have, I'm settling on Berry's 148gr DEWC. No concerns about leading and I don't have to seat the bullet flush as it doesn't have a crimp groove, so I could leave the length a bit long and taper crimp it that way reloading is a bit easier.

I wouldn't have an issue shooting 110gr JHP, but my RIA .38 seems to like the heavier bullets. The Berry's bullets are less costly too.

I always find these types of threads interesting. Everyone looks at things differently, myself I look at the components instead of the loaded rounds.

Leading:
This word shouldn't even be in the conversation. Something a simple as lee liquid lube or my favorite john's paste wax will eliminate leading. I like the jp paste wax, goes on with a cloth/fingers/etc, dries hard & bullets lubed with it can easily be driven 2600fps+ in rifles. You can't drive a bullets lubed in jp paste wax hard enough/fast enough in revolvers/pistols to get leading.

Bullet coatings/jacket
Typically when using the same powder charge/load plated bullets are the slowest, then jacketed. Lead bullets/coated (pc'd) bullets tend to be the fastest. Of the jacketed bullets brass jackets tend to be faster than their copper jacket counterparts. In longer bbl'd firearms bullet make-up/material doesn't matter as much as snub nosed/short bbl'd firearms. +/- 50fps is huge when it comes to a snub nosed 38spl by simply choosing 1 bullet over another.

Bullet design
Most people worry about the nose/shape/hp of the front of the bullet & never give any thought to the base of the bullet. Long bodied bullets like wc's ,bullets with thick/long bottom drive bands & gas checked bullets have higher velocities than their small bottom drive band counterparts. I tested 10 different 150gr to 160gr bullets in a 2" bbl'd snub nosed revolver and there was as much as 70fps difference between bullet's velocity wise using the same loads.

My own testing
A couple years ago I decided to take a hard look at sd loads for a snub nosed 38spl.I decided to do a test to get an idea of the performance of different bullets designs and a general idea/ballpark idea of of the average performance to expect from 150gr to 160gr bullets. I used these 8 bullets in the test along with 2 hollow based bullets (swc & rfn) not shown.


I used 5 powders in the testing, I used 1 load for each powder and those loads were HOT pushing the limits of top end data
bullseye
be-86
unique
power pistol
2400

I loaded up 5 rounds of each bullet/powder combo. While 5 rounds by itself doesn't prove much, the 250 round test was supposed to give me a general idea of what the snub nosed 38spl can do. At the end of the day these 4 bullets consistently outperformed the other 6 velocity wise. When you see as much as 70fps difference in velocities just by changing bullet's. It a real eye opener!!! These are the 4 bullets that had the highest velocities with every powder.


At the end of the day the fast powder/short bbl thing didn't fly. (bullseye) Never does but I already new this from years of testing loads in a snub nosed 44spl. The unique loads and the be-86 loads were pretty much identical velocity wise averaging 830fps (unique) & 845fps (be-86) over the 10 bullet test. The 2400 load was impressive averaging 880fps and the slower powder gave a push instead of the sharp crack/slap the faster powders produced for recoil. Power pistol averaged just over 900fps and clearly/easily outperformed the bullseye/unique/be-86.

In feb-march 2012 handloader magazine (Brian Pearce) did an article on short bbl'd loads for the 38spl. The handloader article in #276 was trying to duplicate the buffalo bore A20 38spl p+ load that's 1000fps rated in 2" bbl's using the same 158gr rimrock lead gas checked hp bullet. Pearce was able to duplicate the bb load using 6.3gr of power pistol and that rimrock 158gr lead gas checked hp bullet.

What I found interesting in that article was the 5.9gr of power pistol/lyman 358429 bullet load that was getting 946fps. I ended up using that 5.9gr of power pistol load for my snub nosed 38spl P= sd load and paired it with these bullets. I also use the same 170gr bullet for my 357/l-comp sd loads.


On a side note
I use/shoot a lot of these "target bullets" in the 38spl's and 9mm's. Left is a modern version of the himmelwright bullet (130gr) and right is a old cramer "indoor gallery bullet" 115gr. I was plating around with that cramer bullet and p+ loads of unique 1 day at the range. Never pushed that bullet hard before and ended up with 1100fps in a 2" bbl'd snub nosed 38spl using that cramer bullet/unique p+ load combo. That 115gr bullet is well worth testing with 6 or 7 different powders to see what it can really do.

Speer shows 4.7-5.2 gr Unique. I found 5.2 gr to hard on my hand. Settled on 4.7 gr until get healthy enough to do more testing.