5.45 x 39 for varmints?
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daniel craig
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It’s not all that different from 223 or 556 so yes
I fail to understand why you would need to crank up velocities.
DocRock
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The cartridge delivers excellent ballistics for a varmint killer. Bullet selection will be the determinant factor in terminal performance.
illinoisburt
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There is really one one platform for the cartridge and it is not inherently accurate enough for shooting small critters at long range. I suspect chucks, gophers, and chipmunks will have a nice laugh at you from the other side of the football fields.
JeeperCreeper
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5.45x39 V-Max from Hornady...
Guess what the "V" stands for
Guess what the "V" stands for
Yep. Hornady will certainly sell it to you. They don't really care if your commie cannon can hit anything though.
FL-NC
Member
I would shoot anything with it that I would shoot with 223. But I wouldn't expect much accuracy at any distance from the AK74 it would most likely be coming out of. I know some AR's were/are made in 5.45, but I have no idea how they perform. I don't think there is anything else that fires it.
amd6547
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I do believe I could ventilate a groundhog at 100yds with my 5.45 Saiga...
I've shot some pretty good groups at 100yds, using surplus 7n6 ammo and a TRS25 red dot, and have hit clay pigeons at that range with iron sights.
I have some of the Hornady ammo, but I haven't benched it yet.
I've shot some pretty good groups at 100yds, using surplus 7n6 ammo and a TRS25 red dot, and have hit clay pigeons at that range with iron sights.
I have some of the Hornady ammo, but I haven't benched it yet.
Or, you could just pick up a .223 bolt gun for your varmint rifle and extend your range.
I have a S&W M&P15 in 5.45x39.
There is just not much need to develop the cartridge in the U.S. because we already have a large line of excellent and accurate .224 cartridges already chambered in some really excellent guns.
Chuck R.
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1st I'd define "varmints", 2ndly I'd define your conditions.
The cartridge is adequate as the other guys pointed out, but the platform might not be, depending on the varmint and the conditions.
For instance, an AK74 would be perfectly adequate for about 90% of the coyote shots I make while calling. Most shots are under 100 yds due to the terrain here in NE KS. I normally use either an AR15 with 1-6X scope, or a shotgun while calling. Quite a few shots are at 1X while they're running in. Head further west where the distances open up and I want more magnification and a greater level of accuracy.
A coyote at 100-200 yds has a greater kill zone than a prairie dog, and a prairie dog requires greater accuracy than a woodchuck, all things being equal. Basically varmints is a pretty broad term when selecting a tool.
The cartridge is adequate as the other guys pointed out, but the platform might not be, depending on the varmint and the conditions.
For instance, an AK74 would be perfectly adequate for about 90% of the coyote shots I make while calling. Most shots are under 100 yds due to the terrain here in NE KS. I normally use either an AR15 with 1-6X scope, or a shotgun while calling. Quite a few shots are at 1X while they're running in. Head further west where the distances open up and I want more magnification and a greater level of accuracy.
A coyote at 100-200 yds has a greater kill zone than a prairie dog, and a prairie dog requires greater accuracy than a woodchuck, all things being equal. Basically varmints is a pretty broad term when selecting a tool.
There is movement to separate out varmints (gophers, Pdogs, etc) from predators (coyotes, fox, bobcat). In that vein, when I say I am going varmint hunting, it usually means Pdogs in my area, with a heavy barrel varmint rifle. When I am going predator hunting, it's a totally different game with different gear and a quicker handling gun.
Jim Watson
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You could look for a SSG82, the East German bolt action sniper rifle.
amd6547
Member
The question was about the 5.45, not what 5.56 could do.
In this case we were talking about the accuracy of the platform, not the cartridge.
amd6547
Member
The platform, in this case, a Saiga kalashnikov, is certainly accurate enough for a groundhog at 100yds. The 5.45 actually has a higher ballistic coefficient than 5.56.
Chuck R.
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Whereas we generally classify anything that's considered a pest, or we're not going to eat as a "varmint". Quick google search for "varmint" images shows everything from mice to pigs. I dunno, maybe the "movement" needs work.
Whereas we generally classify anything that's considered a pest, or we're not going to eat as a "varmint". Quick google search for "varmint" images shows everything from mice to pigs. I dunno, maybe the "movement" needs work.
I could certainly see feral pigs being called varmints. On the other hand, I like to eat pork.....
If you look in a dictionary, the definition of varmint is pretty broad and includes troublesome people.
In my state, some varmints are non-game animals (feral pigs, coyotes, pigeons) that you can hunt without a license. Some are lumped in with big game (javelina) and you have to draw a license. Some are protected furbearers (fox, bobcat, racoon) that have a season and require a furbearer license.
Some varmint hunting books cover calling in bear and cougar. Both are big game animals in my state and require a draw license.
In Florida, I would think that iguana are varmints. And maybe pythons too.
It gets pretty confusing.....
That Ballistic Coefficient is an interesting statement considering the bullet diameters of each are with .002" of each other (.222 vs .224). Which bullets are you comparing when you make your assertion? Military loads? Handloads?
Would the 5.45x39mm make a good varmint cartridge? YES. Is the Saiga Kalashnikov a good varmint rifle? NO. It's mediocre at best. A custom chambered bolt gun in 5.45x39mm however, would be an excellent varmint rifle. I am not going to have one built though. I don't see the point in that. I will just use a 223 Remington (or bigger).
JeeperCreeper
Member
Just throwing it out there since this thread is starting to drift...
In my hands, my Bulgarian '74 (Green mountain barrel) will outshoot all my 5.56 ARs, even a "DMR" style build. Not that I have high end 5.56 guns, but it's a good representation of mid-grade ($1000 and lower) builds. It can't touch my Grendel, the Grendel is crazy accurate.
So pooing at the AK compared to a rack grade AR is a generic myth proven false quite often. Not saying it compares to a bench rest rifle, or a high end AR, but it's def good enough for pest control within reason. Same limitations to a run of the mill AR dudes use all the time.
So is the 5.45 a good varmint round? Yes.
Is the AK a good varmint gun? Yes.
Are there better rounds and better platforms? Of course. But that wasn't the thread question.
In my hands, my Bulgarian '74 (Green mountain barrel) will outshoot all my 5.56 ARs, even a "DMR" style build. Not that I have high end 5.56 guns, but it's a good representation of mid-grade ($1000 and lower) builds. It can't touch my Grendel, the Grendel is crazy accurate.
So pooing at the AK compared to a rack grade AR is a generic myth proven false quite often. Not saying it compares to a bench rest rifle, or a high end AR, but it's def good enough for pest control within reason. Same limitations to a run of the mill AR dudes use all the time.
So is the 5.45 a good varmint round? Yes.
Is the AK a good varmint gun? Yes.
Are there better rounds and better platforms? Of course. But that wasn't the thread question.
daniel craig
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Doesn’t CZ make a bolt action in that caliber?
DocRock
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Since we are pooh-poohing cartridges, let us be clear that the Triple Deuce is the reigning Emperor of the Universe in this category and that all others are but nuggets of excretion cast among swine ;p
CapnMac
Member
The milspec 5.45 has very sketchy availability at present. People I respect who have tried to use it in competition have a less-than stellar opinion of the consistency round-to-round.
Neither of those sound like bulet points on my list of "a pleasant varmint shoot."
In my world--my admittedly narrow world--a varmint shoot could be out to 225-250 yards, and I'm going to want reliable minute-of-picket pin ammo performance and not milspec 3MOA. Also, I don't want to have to smack a lacquered steel case into a chamber because it doesn't want to feed pretty.
Those V-max rounds are interesting. And, I will suppose the market will start offering bolt action arms in the caliber. Which I'd be unlikely to go find for having .243 and .25-06 for the task.
Would I turn down a loaner 5.45 to pig control? Would not be my first choice, but, it ought to suffice.
Neither of those sound like bulet points on my list of "a pleasant varmint shoot."
In my world--my admittedly narrow world--a varmint shoot could be out to 225-250 yards, and I'm going to want reliable minute-of-picket pin ammo performance and not milspec 3MOA. Also, I don't want to have to smack a lacquered steel case into a chamber because it doesn't want to feed pretty.
Those V-max rounds are interesting. And, I will suppose the market will start offering bolt action arms in the caliber. Which I'd be unlikely to go find for having .243 and .25-06 for the task.
Would I turn down a loaner 5.45 to pig control? Would not be my first choice, but, it ought to suffice.
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