Colt New Service 357 From England

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spencerhut

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So I won this in an auction lot with some other stuff and now I think it might be cool enough to keep rather than just sell.
It's a Colt New Service 357 mfg in 1939 with British proof marks.
I know the grips are wrong.
Anyone have any knowledge or history on us sending these Colt 357's over to England during WWII?

Anyone want to take a stab at this?

Colt New Service - Left.png Colt New Service - Right.png
 
Howdy

I'm a S&W guy too, but I have a bunch of Colts too.

I have two New Service revolvers. The one at the top of the photo is chambered for 45 Colt, it left the factory in 1906, the one at the bottom is chambered for 44-40 and left the factory in 1907.

Notice the different shape of the transition of the trigger guard to the frame. No, the trigger guard is not a separate piece, although it looks like it, there is just a 'hard line' defining where the frame 'ends' and the trigger guard 'begins'.

ply01PxOj.jpg

poU43Yyjj.jpg




Later, the transition between the frame and the trigger guard was made smoother as yours will be.


The Colt Model 1917 is built on the same frame, chambered for 45ACP. These things are huge. Look how much bigger the frame of the 45 Colt New Service is than the frame of a S&W Model 1917. Not just the barrel length, but the frame size. That 45 Colt New Service is the largest revolver I own.

poIaXjQIj.jpg




Colt patented the Positive Lock in 1905. The Positive Lock was a hammer block system to make their double action revolvers safe to carry fully loaded with six rounds. For some reason this 1906 New Service does not have it a Positive Lock. There would be a hammer block that slides in a groove in the frame and retracts when the hammer is cocked or the trigger pulled all the way. Maybe Colt did not get around to putting the Positive Lock in all models for a while.

pl2Xx5O2j.jpg




This photo shows the Positive Lock in a Police Positive Special that shipped in 1926

posNBYlqj.jpg




Don't worry, I'm sure Colt was probably putting the Positive Lock inside all revolvers shortly after my New Service shipped, yours most likely will have one inside.



Gotta tell ya, at first I thought there was something wrong about a New Service chambered for 357 Mag. I did not know they were chambered for that cartridge. I also did not realize that the New Service was in production right up to 1944. I looked it up in one of my Colt books and the New Service was chambered for 11 different cartridges. 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38-40, 44 Russian, 44 Special, 44-40, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450 Eley, 455 Eley, and 476 Eley.

The 357 Magnum was developed in 1935, so a New Service that shipped in 1939 chambered for 357 Magnum makes perfect sense.

England declared war on Germany in on September 3, 1939, two days after Germany invaded Poland. The evacuation at Dunkirk began on May 26, 1940 when huge amounts of weapons had to be left behind. The Battle of Britain, when the Luftwaffe bombed England in preparation for a cross channel invasion did not start until July 10, 1940. Lend Lease act was not signed until March 11, 1941, so clearly your revolver will not be marked for Lend Lease.

The Neutrality Acts of 1935, 1936, 1937, banned the sale of munitions to 'belligerents' in the wars fomenting in Europe, but FDR was able to water them down by 1939 so arms could be sold to European countries on a Cash and Carry basis. England was running out of cash to buy arms from the US at that time, so the Lend Lease act of 1941 allowed England and other countries to 'borrow' arms, with the understanding that they would later be returned to the US. Very few actually were, but that is another story.

Anyway, I suspect you may find that your New Service shipped to England in 1939, under the auspices of the Neutrality Act of 1939, when England was gearing up for the hostilities to come.

P.S. When you get it, don't forget you have to hook your thumb over the cylinder release and pull it back to release the cylinder, unlike your Smiths where you push the thumb piece forward.
 
I don't like to disagree with Driftwood Johnson, but I don't think the British would have bought this gun until after the Battle of France had been lost in June 1940. Then they were desperate for arms with which to resist a German invasion of England. At that time, they bought whatever pistols were available off the shelf from S&W and Colt, like 1911's in 38 Super, and I guess, New Services in 357 Magnum.
 
That does make the most sense.

I may have misinterpreted the Original Poster's information.

He said 'mfg in 1939 with British proof marks'

I took that to mean shipped in 1939. So it could have been shipped later, after the fall of France. I don't know off the top of my head if British proof marks include a date, I suspect they do not. I only have one revolver that shipped to a Commonwealth country, Canada, during World War One. I know when it shipped to Canada, and it has a Canadian Broad Arrow stamped on it, but I don't think there is a date for the Canadian acceptance stamp.

It will be interesting to find out what the OP finds out about it. If it has Property of US marked on it, it will clearly be a Lend Lease gun.
 
Wow thanks for all the information!
Edit, posted this before, but I guess it didn't take for some reason.
Howdy

I'm a S&W guy too, but I have a bunch of Colts too.

I have two New Service revolvers. The one at the top of the photo is chambered for 45 Colt, it left the factory in 1906, the one at the bottom is chambered for 44-40 and left the factory in 1907.

Notice the different shape of the transition of the trigger guard to the frame. No, the trigger guard is not a separate piece, although it looks like it, there is just a 'hard line' defining where the frame 'ends' and the trigger guard 'begins'.

View attachment 981210

View attachment 981211




Later, the transition between the frame and the trigger guard was made smoother as yours will be.


The Colt Model 1917 is built on the same frame, chambered for 45ACP. These things are huge. Look how much bigger the frame of the 45 Colt New Service is than the frame of a S&W Model 1917. Not just the barrel length, but the frame size. That 45 Colt New Service is the largest revolver I own.

View attachment 981212




Colt patented the Positive Lock in 1905. The Positive Lock was a hammer block system to make their double action revolvers safe to carry fully loaded with six rounds. For some reason this 1906 New Service does not have it a Positive Lock. There would be a hammer block that slides in a groove in the frame and retracts when the hammer is cocked or the trigger pulled all the way. Maybe Colt did not get around to putting the Positive Lock in all models for a while.

View attachment 981213

Wow thanks for all the info.



This photo shows the Positive Lock in a Police Positive Special that shipped in 1926

View attachment 981214




Don't worry, I'm sure Colt was probably putting the Positive Lock inside all revolvers shortly after my New Service shipped, yours most likely will have one inside.



Gotta tell ya, at first I thought there was something wrong about a New Service chambered for 357 Mag. I did not know they were chambered for that cartridge. I also did not realize that the New Service was in production right up to 1944. I looked it up in one of my Colt books and the New Service was chambered for 11 different cartridges. 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38-40, 44 Russian, 44 Special, 44-40, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450 Eley, 455 Eley, and 476 Eley.

The 357 Magnum was developed in 1935, so a New Service that shipped in 1939 chambered for 357 Magnum makes perfect sense.

England declared war on Germany in on September 3, 1939, two days after Germany invaded Poland. The evacuation at Dunkirk began on May 26, 1940 when huge amounts of weapons had to be left behind. The Battle of Britain, when the Luftwaffe bombed England in preparation for a cross channel invasion did not start until July 10, 1940. Lend Lease act was not signed until March 11, 1941, so clearly your revolver will not be marked for Lend Lease.

The Neutrality Acts of 1935, 1936, 1937, banned the sale of munitions to 'belligerents' in the wars fomenting in Europe, but FDR was able to water them down by 1939 so arms could be sold to European countries on a Cash and Carry basis. England was running out of cash to buy arms from the US at that time, so the Lend Lease act of 1941 allowed England and other countries to 'borrow' arms, with the understanding that they would later be returned to the US. Very few actually were, but that is another story.

Anyway, I suspect you may find that your New Service shipped to England in 1939, under the auspices of the Neutrality Act of 1939, when England was gearing up for the hostilities to come.

P.S. When you get it, don't forget you have to hook your thumb over the cylinder release and pull it back to release the cylinder, unlike your Smiths where you push the thumb piece forward.
 
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Those are known garbage. You should send it to me for disposal...

Cant add any info, but I do love New Service Colts. I have one nearly as white as yours and one that is nearly mint condition. I shoot em both.

I like the grips on it. They add to the character
 
British .357 Magnum proof mark on the barrel. How freaking cool is that?
Bore is minty. Action locks up tight as a bank vault.
 

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