1911 Series 70 or 80?

frogfurr said:

I have a 70 and like it. Most of the high end makers make/build 70's. I would think they would have a reason for doing that.

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It could be as simple as they don't have to pay a fee to Colt for the Series 80 license.

I carried one of those for about 10 years or so.

Had it hard chromed due to rust.

I have a Combat Commander without the FPS and with a solid (non-collet) bushing. I had the NP3 treatment done at Robar before they folded. Great carry pistol. Also carried in an IHL holster (they folded too).

I also have a Combat Elite stamped Series 80 that came from the factory with the collet bushing. So is it really a Series 75?

I don't believe Colt Commanders
ever had the collet bushing.

JTQ said:

When folks say Series 70 these days, they really mean the 1911 doesn't have a firing pin safety. I'll assume that's what you mean, and are not talking about a Colt Series 70 that is distinguished by having a collet barrel bushing.

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Are you saying that Colts with collets also have firing pin safeties?

UncleEd

I don't believe Colt Commanders
ever had the collet bushing.

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As far as I know that is correct; Colt Combat Commanders and Commanders had solid bushings instead of the collet bushings as found on the Series 70 guns.

SwampWolf said:

Are you saying that Colts with collets also have firing pin safeties?

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The Series 70 was known for the collet bushing and the Series 80 was known for the FPS. My Combat Elite from 1987 had both, though the slide says Series 80. My National Match came with just a Collet Bushing and no FPS. It was made in the 70’s.

SwampWolf said:

Are you saying that Colts with collets also have firing pin safeties?

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No, I'm saying the distinguishing feature of the Colt Series 70 was the collet style bushing, not the lack of a firing pin safety.

I'm sure there were Series 80 guns with a collet style bushing, because at Colt parts are parts, but before the Series 70 was introduced, Colt 1911's didn't have a firing pin safety, so the introduction of the Series 70 did not indicate that it didn't have a firing pin safety, because pre-Series 70 Colts didn't have a firing pin safety either. The Series 70 introduced the collet style barrel bushing, not the lack of a firing pin safety.

JTQ said:

No, I'm saying the distinguishing feature of the Colt Series 70 was the collet style bushing, not the lack of a firing pin safety.

I'm sure there were Series 80 guns with a collet style bushing, because at Colt parts are parts, but before the Series 70 was introduced, Colt 1911's didn't have a firing pin safety, so the introduction of the Series 70 did not indicate that it didn't have a firing pin safety, because pre-Series 70 Colts didn't have a firing pin safety either. The Series 70 introduced the collet style barrel bushing, not the lack of a firing pin safety.

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This ^^^^^^^ Great explanation.

Barsto made spring finger bushings for Commander. They were not true collets like the Colt. They quietly dropped them because people kept yanking them off the flared muzzles and breaking or bending fingers. Which is also hard on Colts. As is cranking over the bushing with a wrench while the slide is in battery and the collet expanded.

All this exacerbated by hard recoil, I think the 10mm brought back the solid bushing.

I have two real Colt Series 80 autos.
The OACP hideout gun retains its "lawyer levers" and the pull is decent; probably could be made lighter.
The 1991A1 is a "range gun" and has its trigger set for minimum over travel. That will sometimes drop the hammer without completely clearing the firing pin obstruction and a misfire will ensue. So it got the "shim" rather than give up the last competitive advantage.

Series 70 is the only way to go.

Constrictor said:

Series 70 is the only way to go.

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So, you prefer a collet bushing over a solid bushing?

No 1911 expert here fully disclosed. I will take the safety, especially if EDC. I do not find such a safety to be a "lawyer" part. I sort of like not shooting myself or an innocent because I did not want a nanny part that is essentially invisible to operation and functions as intended. But, I like the Marlin cross bolt safety too, so there is that. And for the same reason. And, the more I studied them before buying one, I prefer the Kimber system.

3Crows said:

And, the more I studied them before buying one, I prefer the Kimber system.

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Just a data point, but you may want to look for information from gunsmith Ned Christiansen on the Swartz firing pin safety.

I don't care one way or the other, but he is a very well regarded 1911 pistol smith, and has been on somewhat of a cautionary Swartz crusade over the past couple of years.

Another data point for drop safety, the Drake Oldman 1911 drop tests

http://dave2.freeshell.org/1911/drop1/drop1.htm

Whichever one I liked better.

The drop tests are great and all, and reassuring, but you haven't lived until you drop a freshly loaded, and still unsafed Commander with no firing pin safety and watch it fall to the kitchen floor in slow motion.

I just wish I had a video of the little dance I was doing as it was going down.

DR505 said:

So, you prefer a collet bushing over a solid bushing?

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I prefer 70 series colts over 80 series by far. In theory the solid bushing is better but I've never had an issue with the collet, and the benefits of 70 far outweigh the negatives.

Get a SAI "MilSpec."

Then, get a Wolff 18.5 lb recoil spring for it, that also comes w/ a heavy duty firing pin spring, gratis.

Enjoy.




GR

I prefer 70 series 1911s but own a few 80 series. If you know what you are doing you can get a good trigger on a 80 series just like a 70. A 70 series 1911 is still more drop safe than a Sig P320.... Just saying.

As to the collet bushing most were broken because people dissembled the gun improperly. To disassemble properly, after removing the recoil spring and plug, retract the barrel 3/4 inch to rotate the bushing. People do not retract the slide and the bushing is under spring/prong pressure and it snaps off the teeth. Breakage of the collet bushing is more often than not an ID10T operator error not a design flaw.

Constrictor said:

I prefer 70 series colts over 80 series by far. In theory the solid bushing is better but I've never had an issue with the collet, and the benefits of 70 far outweigh the negatives.

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WVsig said:

I prefer 70 series 1911s but own a few 80 series. If you know what you are doing you can get a good trigger on a 80 series just like a 70. A 70 series 1911 is still more drop safe than a Sig P320.... Just saying.

As to the collet bushing most were broken because people dissembled the gun improperly. To disassemble properly, after removing the recoil spring and plug, retract the barrel 3/4 inch to rotate the bushing. People do not retract the slide and the bushing is under spring/prong pressure and it snaps off the teeth. Breakage of the collet bushing is more often than not an ID10T operator error not a design flaw.

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My 1971 Gold Cup still has the original collet bushing and it is in fine shape. It does enhance the lock-up over a solid bushing. You are correct that it is operator error that has been causing the breakage (for the most part).

Constrictor said:

In theory the solid bushing is better but I've never had an issue with the collet, and the benefits of 70 far outweigh the negatives.

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And, if desired, you can always replace the collet with a fitted, solid bushing.

JTQ said:

Just a data point, but you may want to look for information from gunsmith Ned Christiansen on the Swartz firing pin safety.

I don't care one way or the other, but he is a very well regarded 1911 pistol smith, and has been on somewhat of a cautionary Swartz crusade over the past couple of years.

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The Kimber is not a true Series 80 safety and adds no stack or pull to the trigger and people can have their opinions but I like my Kimbers and many, many people do as well and I specifically like the safety system whether you and Ned do or do not.