Opinions on the various “Keith” style bullets

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Barbaroja

Barbaroja

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Last August I picked up a 5.5” ruger blackhawk In 44 special. Given the current situation I got the only in stock mold for a 44 bullet I could find, the lee 200gn rnfp. It’s been a great bullet so far but now I’m looking for something heavier to mess with.

When you start researching Keith Bullets you quickly realize how much difference there is from one mold maker to the next. I think I have narrowed it down to a few ( in no particular order)that are as close to Elmers original design. Having trouble deciding so I figured I’d post here and tap into the hive mind of THR.

1) http://arsenalmolds.com/44-Keith-Bullet
The noe 429421 Keith. I like that is has the option to have 50/50 PB and GC ( no intention of using checks in the revolver but could be useful should I get a rifle in 44)

2) http://arsenalmolds.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=138
Noe clone of h&g #503

3) https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-432-256-pb-hp-4-cav/
Mp clone if h&g 503 with HP options. Seems like it could be the “one mold to rule them all” as I’m interested in casting hollowpoints but not sure I’d ever really use them.

I think I couldn’t go wrong with any of these just curious about the experience of others.

thanks
 
I have the m&p copy of the 503 it’s a great mold.go over to castboolits and read up about all the research that went into making that mold it is interesting.I believe it in the group buy section. If you can’t find it just ask someone there
 
Been shooting MBC 45 Keith style for several years. The bevel base doesn't bother me. And I will likely a few left when my son gets it all.
 
The #503 is true to the original Keith design because it has a thick driving band, which he thought essential. You could split hairs over the ogive shape, or even the meplat, but... whatever.

Being true to the Keith design is arbitrary, IMHO. Like Jesse suggests, I've shot thousands and thousands of MBC (or RCBS) style, commercial cast bullets... with a thin driving band and bevel base... with very good success. I don't cast my own, so unless I want to drop .50/bullet for a Montana or Cast Performance bullet, I take what I can get... and they work fine.
 
I have an MP, an NOE and a Lyman 429421. All cast great, accurate bullets. But my favorite is RCBS's rendition, the 44-250 KT, which drops at about 258 grs cast from WW's. It has a little bit larger meplat and has always been very accurate for me, and penetrates well. I recovered this one from a buck where it struck at about 1050 fps, entered behind the last rib on the left side and stopped under the skin just ahead of the right shoulder.

iw9xKN4l.jpg

This particular version is from an NOE mould. At 950 fps MV, all I've killed with it was a doe broadside at 12 yds., and of course it penetrated completely.

cSlm3qMl.jpg

But in the end, I don't think you can go wrong with anyone's version.

35W
 
I have two old Lyman 429421 moulds, one solid and one hp. A friend has a newer version. Only difference I can see is the lube grooves in mine are square bottom (Elmers preference) while his is rounded. More lube never hurts. I believe he was anti bevel-base.
 
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Have shot many thousands of LSWC bullets in .44 Mag---different brands of hard cast to my cast bullets---some were flat base---some were bevel base---didn't
seem to matter--- they all shot great. (S&W Mod29-2 8 3/8in)
 
I'm sure many folks have their favorite "clone" and most have minor variations, but I doubt if one could be considered a "better" model. Most of the changes from the original Keith design are minor and some are for manufacturing, casting improvements (Lyman uses rounded bottom lube grooves for ease of casting, some designers believe a larger or smaller driving band is better, etc.). Keith's original design worked great, but my Lyman 429241 is more accurate than I am in 4 handguns, and I doubt if the differences from the original design would would really be noticeable. Now if I was shooting at a deer at 600 yards, I'd want the best possible bullet design available and Mr. Keith showed his bullets would do this well...
 
If you are searching for the edge of performance, then the wider driving band and a longer nose will give more case capacity for a given bullet weight, and therefore more velocity. If you are OK with slightly less than tip top velocities, then it makes little difference. They have all been accurate for me with a variety of revolvers and many different powders.
 
I guess I'm kind of a nut on the subject, but I have all the molds so far listed, except for the hollow points. And I am satisfied with the results of all of them. My least favorite is the RCBS, simply because it is an iron two pot. It's just too heavy and slow! My most used is the Arsenal #503, because I have a pair of them in five pot and they crank out good bullets fast.
 
I've used the Lyman 429421 for many years. I started out with the RCBS version but that mold refused to give me a bullet with a diameter greater than .428. The Lyman was a fantastic mold and I used it in a bullet casting business I started. Sure sold a lot of those over the years, I don't think any of the other molds can beat it.
 
Thanks for all the responses. They reflect exactly what I was expecting to hear.
I’m looking at these molds in particular and want to be as close to the original Keith design as I can. I am interested in the Keith design because of my interest in the man himself as much as I am a good bullet for my .44 special.
As far as wfn type bullets I think they are great but not what I’m looking for and I’m not convinced that for my uses( medium game and paper)an additional .05” of meplat is going to make any difference in it’s killing ability.

At this point I’m leaning hard towards the aluminum 5 cavity h&g 503 clone from arsenal. It’s priced very well, I think these small mold makers are the future of casting as the industry seems to push more and more to jacketed Bullets and offering less for more money as far as molds go.
 
joed said:
I've used the Lyman 429421 for many years. I started out with the RCBS version but that mold refused to give me a bullet with a diameter greater than .428. The Lyman was a fantastic mold and I used it in a bullet casting business I started. Sure sold a lot of those over the years, I don't think any of the other molds can beat it.
Click to expand...
And I had the opposite experience with MY casting business. I sold many thousands of the 44-250 out of my shop and also loaded that bullet in ammo for my ammo mfg. business.

SO, there's the difference in molds!! You really don't know what you will get until you try it with your alloy...

DM
 
Any of your listed choices will work fine. I have the original #503 in an H&G mold that shoots great. Before that I cast and shot thousands of the RCBS version. I cast mostly with clip-on wheelweights and lube with Red Canuba lube.
 
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