RE: the .280/7mm...

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I think the .280 really shines at 145-160 grain weights. Any lighter, the .270 does it better, at 175, the .30-06 does it better unless you really need the higher SD, in which case a .300 or .338 magnum might be a better choice for such heavy critters. You're pushing the .280 to it's limits on Moose.

In my 20 or so years with the cartridge as a primary deer hunting weapon, and taking one moose with a Hornady 175 RN, I've used bullets across these weights. Think of the 145 as the .30/165 and the 160 as the .30/180 in terms of terminal effects with less recoil. One's for deer, the other for elk. The .280 is extremely pleasant to shoot with 120 and 130 grain bullets, and expansion is remarkable. I probably would not use those on edible game.

After that, vs. the .270 its a matter of more bullet mass with similar performance. Vs. the 30-06, it's less recoil and flatter trajectories for similar performance. Splitting hairs no doubt, but it's fun to be different so long as one has enough brass.

Edit to add. The first bullet I tried in the .280 was the Hornady 154 SST. I had a lot of powerlines to hunt, and the ballistics were remarkable. If you wanted a bullet that comes apart in the boiler room of a large whitetail to 200 yards, this was it. I did not want that performance, so I switched to the Speer 145 GS and did not look back. I'd think one of the bonded slugs, or perhaps the newer Gen Hornady LR hunting bullets might have overcome that difficulty. Run the numbers for a 154 ELD, they are impressive for lighter big game, if the bullet is up to the shorter range impacts. My hunting territory has changed, so I may be revisiting a dedicated LR load for my .280. It will be relegated to part time service for the occasional pipeline sit however, as I've gone old school with the addition of a vintage Rem 760 in .300 Sav, so 150 flat bases and short woods shots it will be going forward.
 
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280ai and 160 Nosler Partitions or Accubonds is like PB&J

You’ll end up with a great balancing and weighted mountain rifle if you get yourself a 24” Proof Carbon Barrel, 8.4 twist have the gunsmith throat it for 160/165 class Nosler and call it a day. Unless you are stuck on using the 175’s then throat it accordingly.

Personally, in my opinion the sweet spot for the 280ai is in the 160/165 range. The 140’s are impressive velocities it’s laser flat shooting at closer distances and for long range work the 175s are great but really one is heading into 7RM territory there. The closest the 280ai gets to pushing up into the 7RM performance is in the 160/165 weights.

The 280 REM was a great cartridge for its time the 280ai is ICING!
 
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One thing I noticed when I looked at Nosler's ballistics for the 280 AI was that the barrel length was 26 inches. My 280 Remington has a 22 inch barrel, weighs 8 1/2 pounds and has a really sharp jump with full power loads. My rifle will work as a lightweight mountain rifle but I was smart not to get the AI version because I wanted to enjoy shooting the rifle. It seems to me that someone who wants to use 175 grain bullets with the AI at full power is looking at a long barreled rifle that weighs at least 9 1/2 pounds. The heavy weight makes it a long distance rifle but takes it out of the mountain rifle easy to carry category. I'm not talking down long range rifles I just want to make the point.

If the .280 Rem had been offered in the Winchester EW/SS, even in a 22" Bbl., would have still treated it as a medium velocity/heavy bullet cartridge like the .270 Win./150 gr. @ 2800 fps. MV.

A 7mm/175 gr. NP at 2600 fps. MV, substituted for a 160 gr. 2750 fps MV general purpose load, would still be a fine woods/DG round the .270 Win would be hard pressed to duplicate.


As mentioned, the .277/160 gr. NP, at a little over 2700 fps. MV, might do it.

The .277/140 gr. TSX, at a bit over 2900 fps. MV, might do it as well.

But would need to do some serious testing before I relied on either of'em to prop me up on the food chain.

There's now a 9.3x62mm in the freezer for that, but a .280 Rem might have mitigated it.

(or not, neat rifle)

:D




GR
 
One thing I noticed when I looked at Nosler's ballistics for the 280 AI was that the barrel length was 26 inches. My 280 Remington has a 22 inch barrel, weighs 8 1/2 pounds and has a really sharp jump with full power loads. My rifle will work as a lightweight mountain rifle but I was smart not to get the AI version because I wanted to enjoy shooting the rifle. It seems to me that someone who wants to use 175 grain bullets with the AI at full power is looking at a long barreled rifle that weighs at least 9 1/2 pounds. The heavy weight makes it a long distance rifle but takes it out of the mountain rifle easy to carry category. I'm not talking down long range rifles I just want to make the point.

Nosler data for 280AI using 175gr is with 24" barrel in Manual 9. I don't think data on line is current. Top velocity is with R-26, 59.5grs @ 2903fps from 24" H&S barrel with 1/9 twist barrel. They used 26" barrel for 185gr and they used R-26 top load @ 2842fps.

For your information my 280AI weight over 9 1/2 lb and I'm able to pack that rifle above timberline plus carrying a pack for easy walk hunt. Good then I didn't meet you now.
 
Nosler data for 280AI using 175gr is with 24" barrel in Manual 9. I don't think data on line is current. Top velocity is with R-26, 59.5grs @ 2903fps from 24" H&S barrel with 1/9 twist barrel. They used 26" barrel for 185gr and they used R-26 top load @ 2842fps.

For your information my 280AI weight over 9 1/2 lb and I'm able to pack that rifle above timberline plus carrying a pack for easy walk hunt. Good then I didn't meet you now.

Think for that bullet wt. and load... 9.5 lbs is a good rifle weight.

Recoil will be in the hot .30-06/180 gr. range, and that extra pound will help.


The long-throat 24"/1:8 .270 Win. re-Bbl. I'm contemplating would have the same target weight.

A .277/165 gr. NP, SD of 0.307 and BC > 0.500, at ~ 2800 fps MV, would be ideal.


Course, could just get it in a long-throat 24"/1:9 .280 Rem and be done w/ it.

Set it up for the 160 gr. NP....

... and the .284/175 gr. NP already exists (SD of 0.310 and BC = 0.519), and at 2800 fps. MV, it would be eminently shootable out of a 9.5 lb rifle as well.




GR
 
Think for that bullet wt. and load... 9.5 lbs is a good rifle weight.

Recoil will be in the hot .30-06/180 gr. range, and that extra pound will help.


The long-throat 24"/1:8 .270 Win. re-Bbl. I'm contemplating would have the same target weight.

A .277/165 gr. NP, SD of 0.307 and BC > 0.500, at ~ 2800 fps MV, would be ideal.


Course, could just get it in a long-throat 24"/1:9 .280 Rem and be done w/ it.

Set it up for the 160 gr. NP....

... and the .284/175 gr. NP already exists (SD of 0.310 and BC = 0.519), and at 2800 fps. MV, it would be eminently shootable out of a 9.5 lb rifle as well.




GR

Seems like any of the above choices would provide you with a great hunter.
 
Just got nothin' in 7mm.

All the RL stuff is .277 and 6.5mm.

The .30-06 is exclusively factory ammo, but that's not possible w/ the .280 cartridge.




GR

I'm a 7mm/.284 guy, so the choice was easy. For your it seems like it makes more sense to look into a long-throated fast twist 270Win given what you are already reloading for.
 
Mark me down as a longtime fan of the .280. In terms of numbers I have probably taken more game with the .280 than any other caliber, including mountain sheep in North America and Asia plus varieties of African antelope.. (Always with handloads) Which is why I have a few pretty nice .280's, including this one built by Maurice Ottmar, whom I consider one of the classiest of classic style custom stockmakers.. DSC_1598 (2).JPG DSC_1588 (2).JPG 21A_3485.JPG
 
As I consider a long range 1:8 twist hunting Bbl. for a long action M700, chambered in either .270 Win or .280 Rem...

What happened?

The outstanding .280 Rem. has all but disappeared.

Factory ammo options are limited and relatively more expensive.

The 7mm-08 and 7RM persist, though w/ 1:9.5 twists, that probably won't stabilize 175 gr. bullets.

The .280 AI seems to have fixed the twist at 1:9, but is not "mainstream", and requires more powder and longer Bbl's than the .280 rem.

I live under a rock. (well, thickets and swamp log)

Was it the 6.5 CM?

I've been shooting a Kimber Hunter in 280 AI for 4 years now, it shoots all 284 bullets equally well, I've come to prefer 160 Accubonds above all else due to some good luck (nothing like a "lucky" rifle that you already liked), being able to get quite close to 7mm Rem Mag velocities with similar barrels and just plain easy to live it's qualities - I got a "wild hair" last year and obtained a twin to the first, it shoots nearly as well, then commenced to cutting the barrel to 20" and putting a Jaeger silencer on it (I know, I know) Needless to say, I was more than pleasantly surprised to discover that I lost an average of 140 fps shooting the same 160's with the fastest powder (lowest volume load) and a cci250 pr - recoil is noticeably less, noise while nowhere near "silenced" is also noticeably "less loud" - In my experience, the "experts" are correct about the 280AI being among the very best improved cartridges to work with (all data comes from newest Nosler manual)




GR
 
I'm a 7mm/.284 guy, so the choice was easy. For your it seems like it makes more sense to look into a long-throated fast twist 270Win given what you are already reloading for.

And, I'm kind of a recoil wuss.

Like an all day shootin' rifle to be < ~ 19 ft-lbs, and the .270 Win does that in the heavy wts. in an 8.5 lb rifle.

... or w/ a long loaded fast twist 24" Bbl. in a 9.5 lb rifle.


But always thought that the .280/160 gr. was apex for a large game load, and the capacity to shoot the 175 gr. for the bad spots.

Horns of a dilemma.




GR
 
The .280 is too good to be given its Last Rites.

Nosler, Hornady, Peterson and Norma all make brass for it. Nosler even makes .280AI brass so you don't even have to bother with fire forming it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021411695

In this age of both molasses slow dbl-based powders, and affordable pocket rangefinders...?

... the .280 Rem has plenty of case capacity for any non-magnum requirements.

But that's just me.

:D




GR
 
Mark me down as a longtime fan of the .280. In terms of numbers I have probably taken more game with the .280 than any other caliber, including mountain sheep in North America and Asia plus varieties of African antelope.. (Always with handloads) Which is why I have a few pretty nice .280's, including this one built by Maurice Ottmar, whom I consider one of the classiest of classic style custom stockmakers..View attachment 993309 View attachment 993310 View attachment 993312

Sorry... couldn't hunt w/ that rifle.

I'd be a wreck before I even got out of the boat.

Gorgeous.




GR
 
I'm thinking hard about building a 280AI for my one and everything hunting rifle.

With the 120-150gr bullets it'll do anything a 270 will do at least a well.

But if I ever need or want to go heavier, the option of 175gr is nice to have.

Also, I'm more likely to pick up another 7mm as opposed to a 6.8 (7-08, 7x57, etc) and will be able to use some of my components there.
 
current producers of 280/280AIs
Winchester
Browning
Savage
Kimber
Christensen
Bergara

Factory custom guns
Ruger (distributor exclusive, so lets call it a custom)
Nosler
ErShaw
Cooper

im probably missing a few, but those are the ones i could find easily....and remember.

I kind of feel like Winchester should have an asterisk in that list.... They kind of produce a .280, just not one that anybody wants, super grade only, and with a 10 twist... :barf:

I think all of their other 7mms have a 9.5 twist, so they put in some extra effort and went out of their way to put that bone headed twist in their .280. Winchester rifles does seem kind of sleep at the wheel these days though, like Kimber, a different color scheme every few years is about all you can expect

Browning does well with the .280 AI, it's offered in several models with an 8 twist, their .280 offerings are a bit more limited and use a 9.5 twist. Add in the fact that the .280 MAP of 60ksi leaves a lot of area under the pressure curve in the table compared to the 65ksi of the .270 and .280AI, and I'm not sure what value proposition the .280 really has in factory guise.
 
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I have an ER Shaw 1:9.5 twist rate barrel on a FN bolt action that likes everything I feed it. I will admit the 175gn ELDs have not been brought into as tight of a group as everything from 139-162 grain loads. I could have worked on it more but the others did so well I stopped. The buck I smacked with the 150 grain Game King from my 280 Rem made it about six steps and fell.
The 280 Rem is vastly underrated in my opinion. Yes, Remington did a poor job marketing it and it’s factory load choices are embarrassingly small. The 280 handloads do anything a 270 Win does so if you have a 270, use it. If you don’t have a 280, consider getting one. Fair warning———factory ammo choices on the 280 Rem are scarce.......as if anything these days is plentiful and priced right.
 
The first custom rifle I had built was a 280.I was already enlightened to the fact that factory loads were held to the 60K range instead of 65.I very carefully stoked it up a little bit so I was well above 3,000 FPS with the 140 grain Partitions I shot in it.It had a Shilen 9 twist barrel on it and as the years passed,I'd try some of the new offerings,but none of them were anything much better than what I had been shooting in it for years,so I just stuck to the 140 grain Partitions for hunting and Sierra Gamekings for practice.
The barrel eventually lost its Mojo,and when I ordered a replacement,I ordered a Shilen Select Match 280AI and I stayed with the 9 twist,but went to a factory varmint contour because I wanted to use it to shoot up the hillsides that my rickety back won't let me climb.The first choice of bullets was the 168 grain Berger Classic Hunter for hunting and the 160 grain Sierra Tipped Matchking for long range steel ringing.I can't say a bad thing about either one.The TMK's are impressive at 1,000 yards with a .600 BC,and the 100 yard group numbers are in the upper ones to the middle fours.The 280 in its usual trim will more than hang with the 270,and the improved round is a lot better in a lot of ways.I almost ordered it in a 10 twist,but a very nice lady who worked for Shilen talked me out of it.My 280AI weighs about 13 pounds with everything added in,so,it's not a rifle I can carry very far.I have a Model 7 for that.But it's easy on the shoulder,and with their BC,the TMK's are able to do some impressive things at a thousand and beyond.They run right at 3,000 FPS,and the Bergers are 50 FPS slower than that,and they're almost as accurate.I've also had good results with 171 grain Barnes Match Burners and they shoot just fine out of the 9 twist barrel,with 5 shots at 500 yards holding firm at 2.5 inches most of the time.I'd think they're longer than some of the 175 grain hunting bullets in the older configurations where a 9 twist should work,but that's about it for a 9 twist.VLD's,ELD's and Accubond LR's will need more twist to shoot the very long heavy bullets.I think the club I built would be a pretty decent setup for shooting at 1,000+ yards,and I've amazed myself several times with what it can do at that range.I think if I ever got a chance to shoot informal F-Class,I would pick the 280 AI over some of the rounds out there.
 
My 280 Rem was built as a hunting rifle. The Boyd’s laminate stock helps move recoil to the arm vs all of I to the shoulder. As a plinker on the 1,000 yard gong (20” diameter) it is surprisingly good. The 154 grain SSTs are a favorite plinking load.
Since the factory loads run way under the pressure they can safely operate with, my 280 Rem gets hearty amount of powder. Superformance, RL19 and H-4350 are three great powders for my rifle.
 
The .280 is too good to be given its Last Rites.

Nosler, Hornady, Peterson and Norma all make brass for it. Nosler even makes .280AI brass so you don't even have to bother with fire forming it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021411695
Hornady offers AI brass as well, im on my 4 or 5th firing of the 100 I bought with my gun.

Yep, there's a place for synthetic stocks. And places where gorgeous stocks should fear to tread.
While i understand the sentiment......Id HAVE to hunt that......its too pretty not to carry at least once or twice.


Oh a note on fededal fusion .280 ammo. The 140s clocked 3040(if i remember correctly) from my guns 26" barrel. They also held 3/4moa out to the 300yds ive shot then on paper. Those bullets are pretty tough, id be pretty comfortable with those as a general use loading.
 
GR,
It looks like it's time to rebarrel that M700 to 280 or 280AI.

I think the 280AI is going to continue to grow in popularity. The 6.8 western is a neat cartridge but I don't see it getting the following it needs to become relevant, just my opinion.

Yeah...

IF - I went w/ the 7mm... it would be the .280 Rem.

That's just the way I am.

Plenty of room in the case to make her sing any tune I want from a 24" long throated Bbl.


Since Nosler has thrown their hat into the 6.8 ring w/ both their 28N and 165 gr. ABLR...

... think I'll wait a spell and see what turns up .277 wise, like maybe a heavy AB or Partition.


Will probably make the call after the Democrat National Socialist Plan-demic and Coup has receded a bit, which would facilitate a caliber addition if need be.

PacNor has some lead time - so will try to coordinate the re-Bbl. w/ the re-establishment of American Constitutional Liberty.

Should be a neat project either way.

WP-20180617-11-54-18-Pro-2-crop.jpg
1479117250.jpg



GR
 
Yeah...

IF - I went w/ the 7mm... it would be the .280 Rem.

That's just the way I am.

Plenty of room in the case to make her sing any tune I want from a 24" long throated Bbl.

I would strongly suggest you consider the AI treatment, for more than just increased powder capacity, brass life is extended as well. There really is no downside other than imperceptible chambering differences between the non-AI and AI version due to the straighter case design.

As long as 280 Rem brass is available 280AI brass will be available, and there will probably be increased commercial availability going forward of 280AI loadings as opposed to 280 Rem loadings.

But if you are an originalist when it comes to cartridges I guess I'm not going to argue with personal preferences after this point.

Given your preferences towards .277 bullets I would have a hard time telling you to go with a 280 Rem over a long throated 270 Win or the 6.8 Western. But if were talking 280AI, and you don't mind getting into a different caliber I would say 280AI is a very good option.

So to make my response succinct. Knowing you reload using .277 bullets and have lots of experience and components for that. And your choice is between a long-throated 280 REM and a long throated 270 Win or 6.8 Western, I would choose the latter.
 
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