1849 Colt Questions

Johnm1 · Jul 11, 2021

I went to make a trade for a S&W No. 3 but couldn't make it work. I have always wanted an 1849 and he had one at a reasonable price. Actually it was another trade. I was happy with what I gave up to get this one. Small pit in the barrel but otherwise all matching. I suspect the hammer and probably the mainspring have been replaced. The only issue I have with it mechanically is the cylinder bolt does not retract enough while in half cock. Although I gave it a good solid cleaning I have not gotten to the insides of the mechanism to figure it out. It is possible the cylinder bolt has been replaced and just needs to be fitted properly. I may or may not get to that later today.

I do have some general questions about it. It was manufactured in 1854. My crude measurements put the Bore at 0. 320" as well as the throats on the cylinder. But, the grooves measure at 0.330". A visual of the grooves don't show any significant wear other than the one pit. It appears that the measurements I have are the way it was manufactured. Were the tolerances of the day that far off?

Also, Are there specific pistol sized nipple wrenches? All of the wrenches I have, one that works on an 1860 Colt, are all too large to reach the nipple.

Similar question, are there cap tools sized to put caps on this sized pistol. Again, all of the tools I have are too large.

And the basic question, what are people's pet loads for an old 1849 Colt? I do not need a hot load, but I will fire this thing.

troy fairweather · Jul 11, 2021

Polish capper may work.

Ephraim Kibbey · Jul 11, 2021

These fit the repro 1849's but I do not know about originals:

https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?searchWord=nipple wrench&pid=413&offset=0

Johnm1 · Jul 12, 2021

Ephraim Kibbey said:
These fit the repro 1849's but I do not know about originals:

https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?searchWord=nipple wrench&pid=413&offset=0

Thanks. I sent them an email.

44 Dave · Jul 12, 2021

If when you get inside you find the issue is the cam, remember it was a separate pressed in piece.
A local "antique shop" has one for $1150. Just looked at it briefly they let me turn it, and all seems to be good. I just bought a Ruger Old Army, so gun money is spent for a while.

Johnm1 · Jul 13, 2021

Johnm1 said:
Thanks. I sent them an email.

They responded that it would work. Yay!

44 Dave said:
If when you get inside you find the issue is the cam, remember it was a separate pressed in piece.
A local "antique shop" has one for $1150. Just looked at it briefly they let me turn it, and all seems to be good. I just bought a Ruger Old Army, so gun money is spent for a while.

I might be able to get inside this weekend. I may have some questions for you.

Johnm1 · Jul 13, 2021

Figured I’d add some pictures. It looks like the trigger guard and back strap were originally silver plated. Not sure what the X is under the silver plate is.

1854 makes it a New York City gun

Kind of goes with my Remington Pocket reproduction.

Ephraim Kibbey · Jul 15, 2021

Johnm1 said:
Not sure what the X is under the silver plate is.

Maybe the bottom of a "3" over the top of a "C" ??? As in ".31" over "Cal."??? Usually it was written in one line ".31 Cal.," but who knows?

arcticap · Jul 15, 2021

Johnm1 said:
It looks like the trigger guard and back strap were originally silver plated. Not sure what the X is under the silver plate is.

The description for this auction gun also says that it has an X and a U on the left side of the trigger guard along with a B on the left side of the barrel lug.--->>> https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...t-model-1849-pocket-revolver-with-accessories

arcticap · Jul 15, 2021

Johnm1 said:
Figured I’d add some pictures. It looks like the trigger guard and back strap were originally silver plated. Not sure what the X is under the silver plate is.

This thread says that it's a Colt factory inspector's mark.
Different guns can have a different letter displayed. --->>> https://civilwartalk.com/threads/1849-colt-pocket-mystery-mark.182504/

Ugly Sauce · Jul 15, 2021

Very cool old survivor.

Johnm1 · Jul 16, 2021

arcticap said:
This thread says that it's a Colt factory inspector's mark.
Different guns can have a different letter displayed. --->>> https://civilwartalk.com/threads/1849-colt-pocket-mystery-mark.182504/

So inspectors mark it is.

Any clue on the number 2? It appears twice adjacent to the serial number. Second quality maybe? It can be seen on the cylinder in post 7 picture 4.

arcticap · Jul 17, 2021

Johnm1 said:
So inspectors mark it is.

Any clue on the number 2? It appears twice adjacent to the serial number. Second quality maybe? It can be seen on the cylinder in post 7 picture 4.

I can only guess that they're also inspector's marks.
The cylinder shown in the link in post #9 also has a mark.

And this martially marked auction gun has 3 marks on the cylinder. --->>> https://www.morphyauctions.com/jame...-model-1849-pocket-percussion-revolver-39320/

Johnm1 · Jul 18, 2021

44 Dave said:
If when you get inside you find the issue is the cam, remember it was a separate pressed in piece.
A local "antique shop" has one for $1150. Just looked at it briefly they let me turn it, and all seems to be good. I just bought a Ruger Old Army, so gun money is spent for a while.

I was fortunate that it was only the tension on the bolt spring. A little more tension on the bolt spring and the bolt now reliably drops out of the way in half cock. The sound of the clicks is much more 'natural' now as well.

Now, what do people do to keep the caps on after firing? I have an assortment of caps, 10, 11, and some imported caps but it happens with all of them.

Don Van Winkle · Jul 18, 2021

Johnm1 where in Mesa are you? I live here in Mesa too. Is there a place to shoot BP guns? I am just back from a deployment and retire soon from the Navy. I have been looking for a place to shoot here but haven't had much luck.

Don

Johnm1 · Jul 18, 2021

I

Don Van Winkle said:
Johnm1 where in Mesa are you? I live here in Mesa too. Is there a place to shoot BP guns? I am just back from a deployment and retire soon from the Navy. I have been looking for a place to shoot here but haven't had much luck.

Don

I'm in Superstition Springs. Right now the only place to shoot is at the established ranges. All of the public land is closed for recreation due to the fire danger. Either Rio Salado or Ben Avery. I don't know of any indoor ranges that let you shoot black powder though there might be some. I'm a member at Rio. I'll be at Rio tomorrow morning at 7:00 AM if you want to meet up.

Once the fire restrictions are lifted there are quite a few places in the desert to shoot. Just keep in mind that target shooting is not allowed on State Trust Land. But BLM and National Forest lands are plentiful. I personally shoot at Florence Junction/Cottonwood Canyon Road. 60 East past Gold Canyon to state route 79. South on 79 for 5 miles to Cottonwood Canyon Road. Tall Flagpole at the entrance, it is the entry to the National Guard Artillery Range. At that point you are on State Trust Land. Travel East on Cottonwood Canyon Road for 5 miles and you reach BLM land. There are dozens of places to safely shoot with a mountain or large hill for a backstop.

Lyle · Jul 18, 2021

Here is a link to the state trust land map.
http://gis.azland.gov/webapps/parcel/?loc=-112.0523,33.3245,10&layers=3,2,0

Johnm1 · Jul 18, 2021

Lyle said:
Here is a link to the state trust land map.
http://gis.azland.gov/webapps/parcel/?loc=-112.0523,33.3245,10&layers=3,2,0

Keep in mind that is a map of places you can't target shoot. State trust land requires a permit to use. During hunting season your hunting license is your permit. But target shooting is always prohibited.

Jackrabbit1957 · Jul 18, 2021

Are the caps following the hammer? If so look at the hammer face, if it has any grooves or holes in it with sharp edges it is more likely to pull the caps off the nipples. Filling them in with JB weld will most likely help, or install a cap rake.

Johnm1 · Jul 18, 2021

Ugly Sauce said:
Very cool old survivor.

I shot it a little bit yesterday, but went back this morning to spend some time with the 1849. It was consistent but nowhere near point of aim. I had better luck with the Caps today. Number 10 appears to be the correct size and both Remington and CCI seem to work most of the time. When caps do fail it may very well be following the hammer out. I'll have to inspect the hammer during the deep clean in a little while. It seems if I put my hammer back smartly the cap wants to fall out of the cap loading port. I had a couple fall in The Recess of the hammer and a few that were just too far out to allow the cylinder to turn easily. It's very difficult to seat the caps with my fingers and I have not found a Capper that fits on such small nipples with such limited access. So some of this may be trial and error and operator learning.

The point of impact was at least 10 in higher than the point of aim at 11 yards. I toyed with different loads but it appears I would need much more powder then there is capacity to bring the one of them pack to point of aim.
Knowing my bore was 0.320 I bought some double-ought buckshot to use for projectiles. At 0.330" I thought they would cut a nice ring. It turns out they're too hard or too large or both. I was afraid of breaking the ram rod on the gun trying to seat them so I gave up using them. I was using 0.315" balls and they don't cut any kind of a ring. Although, they do seem to stay seated well.

All in all a good day with the 1849.

Ugly Sauce · Jul 18, 2021

Have you tried a slug, or do they make them for the .32's?

Johnm1 · Jul 18, 2021

Ugly Sauce said:
Have you tried a slug, or do they make them for the .32's?

I have not tried conicals though they are period accurate and at least the molds are available.

https://www.erasgonebullets.com/store/product/-31-baby-dragoon

Ugly Sauce · Jul 19, 2021

Might be worth a try to see if the POI comes down.

Johnm1 · Jul 19, 2021

Ugly Sauce said:
Might be worth a try to see if the POI comes down.

I like the idea of conicals and likely will try them. I also found a source for 0.320 dead soft round ball. I am thinking that a tighter fitting ball will increase the velocity and lower the trajectory. From what I read these were intended to be shot with clinicals.

Ugly Sauce · Jul 20, 2021

I like conicals or slugs because I sometimes carry (or plan to) a replica 1862 when hunting big game, for small game/wilderness survival purposes. With the slugs, I don't have to reload with wads, just send a charge in with my flask, pop in a slug, ram it down and cap. More "field use" friendly. But, I have attained really good accuracy with the slugs. I also shoot slugs now in both my Uberti New Model Army of Navy caliber, and my 1860, mostly because it's more "hassle free" loading. The 1860 I had to put on a taller front sight, but the Uberti/New Model Army (of Navy caliber) came with a tall enough sight that the POI is just right.

I think that the little pistols were intended to shoot either or, and the Army and Navy pistols were generally shot with slugs. Many of the molds for the pistols came with a cavities for both ball and slug. They used to make/sell factory boxed paper cartridges with slugs for the bigger guns, .36" and .44", I wonder if they made the same for the .32's? (or .31's)

Dead soft round balls sound good. I think it's hard to predict what will have an effect on elevation/POI, so trying everything is a good thing. I don't remember now if balls shot higher or lower in my 1862, compared to slugs. ! My mind is like a steel trap...a rusty steel trap. I do believe the slugs are more accurate, in both my Remington .36" and my 1862, after working out what lube and powder charge was best. On the other hand, I put a taller front sight on my 1862, which isn't really an option on an original pistol.

Okay, good luck, keep working at it. Will you be carrying the '49 when hiking, hunting, exploring, fishing etc. etc.?? I'd love to have an original pistol to pack around. That would be tooooooo cool.

1849 Colt Questions

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