TEKoken813
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TEKoken813 writes:
There should only be one sheriff in Hillsborough County.
Ha ha. Are we gonna split hairs?
Police Handguns
- Thread starter Brubz
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Ha ha. Are we gonna split hairs?
Houston PD, in Texas, went Glock G17, for all new-hires, as a result of the SIG P320 scandal. (Briefly, the 9mm P320 had become the standard for new-hires.) From 1997 to 2016, HPD’s standard duty cartridge was the .40 S&W, and the G22 and G23 were the most popular, by far, of the several authorized duty pistol choices, during that time. Notably, Houston officers buy their own duty pistols, and are not required to buy yet another duty pistol, when a policy change is made, as existing pistols remain “grandfathered.” So, there are plenty of G22 and G23 duty pistols still being used, in Houston, Texas.
Before the .40 S&W became the standard duty cartridge, in 1997, there were plenty of officer already carrying .45 ACP Glock G21 and G30 duty pistols. Those remain grandfathered, too. In 2012, .45 ACP was reinstated, as an authorized alternative duty cartridge, and plenty of officers started purchasing G21 and G30 duty pistols.
So, collectively, there are plenty of Glocks in duty holsters, in Houston, Texas. Houston is the USA’s fourth most-populous city, but the officers-per-capita is lower than in most big cities, so HPD is not the fourth-largest municipal PD, at ~5000 sworn officers.
Before the .40 S&W became the standard duty cartridge, in 1997, there were plenty of officer already carrying .45 ACP Glock G21 and G30 duty pistols. Those remain grandfathered, too. In 2012, .45 ACP was reinstated, as an authorized alternative duty cartridge, and plenty of officers started purchasing G21 and G30 duty pistols.
So, collectively, there are plenty of Glocks in duty holsters, in Houston, Texas. Houston is the USA’s fourth most-populous city, but the officers-per-capita is lower than in most big cities, so HPD is not the fourth-largest municipal PD, at ~5000 sworn officers.
All the departments in LA issue guns instead of approved list/user supplied?
Glocks are without a doubt, the most popular gun I see in holsters in TX, even though a vast majority of our agencies do not "issue" guns.
bassjam
Member
Cincinnati was carrying M&P's as of a couple years ago too.
I think someone mentioned it, but Glock had an impressive marketing campaign when they were trying to sell to police departments. They set the retail price high, but offered "breaks" to police departments, gave them high dollar for their trade-ins, and resold those for extra profits. All this was knowing that the general public would start buying whatever the police was using.
md7
Member
Here in south Mississippi almost every agency and officer I know carries a Glock. Most are either a G17 or G19 with a few still carrying G22’s
C-grunt
Member
Recently went through Glock armorers class and the instructor (famous retired LEO) said they still have roughly 60 percent of the market. The M&P did a really good job cutting into the market with their very aggressive trade in tactics for departments. Also the fact that the M&P is a great pistol helped. The P320 is slowly making its way into the market but the early trigger issue definitely hurt it.
I think one of the big reasons why Glock is still the major player is the Blue Label program. Many departments around the country require officers to buy their own pistol. Glock sells their standard models for 395 dollars in the Blue Label program. In some states where cops make crap money, that can be a big deal. Around here in Phoenix Ive seen that Sig is doing the same thing recently, which will help. I recently went to the store to buy a Glock 43x and ended up buying a Sig P365XL for just a little more because of the pricing. I figured Id give it a try and if I dont like it I'll easily get enough from selling it to buy the Glock. But so far Im loving the XL.
I think one of the big reasons why Glock is still the major player is the Blue Label program. Many departments around the country require officers to buy their own pistol. Glock sells their standard models for 395 dollars in the Blue Label program. In some states where cops make crap money, that can be a big deal. Around here in Phoenix Ive seen that Sig is doing the same thing recently, which will help. I recently went to the store to buy a Glock 43x and ended up buying a Sig P365XL for just a little more because of the pricing. I figured Id give it a try and if I dont like it I'll easily get enough from selling it to buy the Glock. But so far Im loving the XL.
dfariswheel
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I just saw an article the other day that Glock is having an new plant built in the USA to built 100% American Glock pistols.
This is in response to anti-gun import restrictions possibly coming, and because Sig is eating into Glock's mark share.
This is in response to anti-gun import restrictions possibly coming, and because Sig is eating into Glock's mark share.
GunnyUSMC
Member
A lot of the smaller agencies have approved list of guns and require their officers to buy their own guns.
herrwalther
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Glock already has a USA plant in Smyrna, GA. Unless you have heard of another?
Even some larger departments work off an approved firearm list. Our local big metro is Birmingham PD which has just over 900 sworn officers. They can issue a Glock 17 or 19 if you request one. But if you want anything else it has to be on the approved list. And you have to track down your own duty holster. I never saw any officer with pistol optics but lights were on almost every firearm. Smaller town cops around me are almost all approved list and you buy what you want to use.
herrwalther
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I saw the question. Was just adding on how things are done for departments over here.
Jackalope 1
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Did have, according to Fox News NYPD is shedding officers faster than sheep in shearing season, can't blame them, the hatch job Cuomo's doing I would have resigned the first time he opened his big mouth.
Jackalope 1
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Just curious, is Glock really a better handgun than American made or the bean counters can buy same DIRT CHEAP??? Reason I ask, is, while touring Normandy in 2010 I had the chance to chit-chat with several different French police officers, quite unfriendly until one asked me why I was here, said I had 2 uncle's ( true ) landed on the beaches 6/6/44. Instant change of attitude, inquired if they they chose their sidearms, no, they replied, the bean counters do also issued strict amount of ammo, each round must be accounted for at all times. Are we coming to that point in time?????
Jim Watson
Member
To some extent. A FBI friend may shoot his issued Glock only with issued ammo.
I don't know what the allotment is.
An enthusiast and competitor, he has his own Glock for his own ammo.
I don't know what the allotment is.
An enthusiast and competitor, he has his own Glock for his own ammo.
entropy
Member
Glock around here. My Dad may have been responsible for the crack in S&W's dam on handgun choice. He bought the second G17 available in this area, (the gun shop guy who sold it to him got the first) Dad took his Watch Commander out shooting with it, they both brought the Deputy Chief, then the Chief out shooting it. Dad showed them the simple takedown & maintenance, and the rest is History; The St. Paul, MN, PD was the first major metropolitan PD to adopt the Glock:
The article by Mas about SPPD adopting the Glock.
This is more recent, but Dad has always owned at least a G19, and he's had almost all the calibers it's been made in, except .380.
The article by Mas about SPPD adopting the Glock.
This is more recent, but Dad has always owned at least a G19, and he's had almost all the calibers it's been made in, except .380.
When I retired two years ago agents were getting the same amount of dollars spent on ammo as they had been getting since 1998....NO increase in ammo budget in all those years. Ammo in 1998 was plentiful; in 2019 we had a significant reduction.
Edit to add: One of the first things that any new Assistant Director of the Training Division usually tries to do, to make his "mark", is to reduce the number of hours new agent trainees spend on the range (and correspondingly save on ammo). It is always a fight to keep range time when "Mahogany Row" thinks you need more diversity or ethics training.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Our corporate types use the cute and clever acronym, IED: Inclusion, Equity, and Diversity. No further comment required.When I retired two years ago agents were getting the same amount of dollars spent on ammo as they had been getting since 1998....NO increase in ammo budget in all those years. Ammo in 1998 was plentiful; in 2019 we had a significant reduction.
Edit to add: One of the first things that any new Assistant Director of the Training Division usually tries to do, to make his "mark", is to reduce the number of hours new agent trainees spend on the range (and correspondingly save on ammo). It is always a fight to keep range time when "Mahogany Row" thinks you need more diversity or ethics training.
entropy
Member
But is it a VBIED? 
Zerodefect
member
In Ohio I see mostly Glock and SW MP. Some other polymer pistols mixed in, like FN, Walther, Sig.
All kinds of odd stuff though, in rare amounts. Revolvers (court guys, not a beat cop), 1911, CZ sometimes.
I'd want a Glock 35, if that was my gig. I see lots of G21, 35, 34, 17, 22. It's not 9mm only, like many people say.
All kinds of odd stuff though, in rare amounts. Revolvers (court guys, not a beat cop), 1911, CZ sometimes.
I'd want a Glock 35, if that was my gig. I see lots of G21, 35, 34, 17, 22. It's not 9mm only, like many people say.
Jackalope 1
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The point I was trying to make, is the bean counters would rather spend our our TAX DOLLARS on new hi-cap guns than on training Leo's to shoot accurately and reload FAST. In my younger days ( now 83 ) when the slide locked back , the magazine dropped out, new loaded magazine in place, slide forward ready to fire, about one second, that is training, not spraying and praying. Something that has been proven to work SUCCESSFULLY for 70-80-90-100 years why change??? New changes always bring new EXPENSIVE problems. But just my way of thinking???
C-grunt
Member
I believe LE pay in Washington tends to be pretty good. I have a buddy from the Academy who moved there and is a Deputy east of Seattle. I havent heard him complain about pay and he has a nice house. Most places where I hear about low pay is the midwest and the south. It also seems that's the area where you have a lot more small departments. Im talking around 10-20 officers. I dont think those small town municipalities have enough budget to pay their officers much more than minimum wage.
C-grunt
Member
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It's not that it's better, but it's been the standard for a long time and it works. The newer striker fired guns like the M&P, CZ P10, P320, VP9 are just as good, if not better in certain aspects. But Glock was the first widely successful striker fired LE handgun and has been the standard for so long that it's entrenched itself in good and deep. A lot of logistics goes into switching guns.
Lets take my department for example. We'll use 3000 officers just as a round number ( we dont have quite that number because there isnt a whole lot of people signing up for testing after the last year).
First we would have to get all of the armorers and trainers trained on the new gun. Then you would have to buy roughly 3500 new guns, holsters, extra magazines, magazine pouches, spare parts, specific tools, etc...
Then you have to train the 3000 officers on the new gun. Do you bring them down on work time? Who covers for them? Do you bring them down on over time? How much is that going to cost? Hiw much ammo is going to need to be shot for guys to get proficient with their new gun? Everyone is going to have to pass a POST qualification prior to carrying the gun, so we are looking at even more time to train guys that fail the qualification.
Remember most cops are not gun people. Many cops I know only have 1 gun, their issued handgun. I know a couple who dont even take it home at night. Other guys might have another handgun or two but they are also Glocks because that's what they carry at work and that's what they've been trained on for the last 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I know of detectives who keep their gun locked in their desk at work. They take it out for the mandatory quarterly range sessions and annual qualification. Some of these guys wont have much of an issue with the new guns, some guys are going to require a good amount of range time before they can qualify on the gun.
Then you have to get rid of the old guns. That means while the officers are training at the range with the new gun, you'll need several of your trainers/armorers off the line to get the old guns ready for trade in. Whatever distributor you contract with isnt going to want a Barrel 'O' Glocks showing up.
So with all that in mind, convincing management and city/county/state officials that going through all of that to replace a well known and respected firearm is going to take some serious effort.
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