Pierced primers?

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Riomouse911

Riomouse911

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Howdy all!

I put together a bunch of Brazos bullets coated .312” 100 gr WC over 3.6 gr of HP-38 and fired them in my 6.5” Ruger Single Six Bisley.

Accuracy was good but not great, with 17 of 18 hitting in the 9 ring at 20 yards offhand (I chunked the high flyer, tensed up on the fourth shot of the second cylinder). The low ones I’ll take the blame for, too.

14023BF5-36A5-48F7-9839-6035B6A638F5.jpeg

After shooting, I noticed that three of the Winchester small pistol primers had a blackened primer strike, while none of my CCI or the other WSP used in this load that were fired that day had this.

AB9EC18E-E397-4C77-AC27-6252D282072C.jpeg 5530F19E-5473-4C17-8577-8A823A53C33B.jpeg

Is this what a pierced primer looks like? If so, what causes it with some primers but not with others of the same brand and load? (I put a bore light in the case to see if light leaked through the primer indentation, but I didn’t see any light.)

Thanks for any input :thumbup:.

Stay safe.
 
That is what they look like when the firing pin causes it.
They can spring a leak on the edge of the primer also. Not always the primers fault.
When my SP101 was new I took it to my gunsmith for a spring kit, and when test firing, he noticed it was also piercing primers so he stoned down the end of the firing pin and polished it. It hasn't done it since.
 
Lower the powder charge, 3.7 is maximum using 100gr & HP-38 IN 32 H&R magnum. IMO.

Primers can be .008" below the case head & be ok. Buy a primer pocket uniformer so the pocket depth is uniform.

A pierced prime is a sign of over pressure. Or a primer sitting above the case head. Flush is ok.

View attachment 1019898
 
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Since 1999 Winchester primers have thinner cups. That was the year Winchester redesigned their primers so they would be more sensitive and removed the nickel plating. The consequence is, pierced primers at loads that never bothered the old nickel plated primers. I switched to CCI#41's and life has been good again.

I ate up a handful of AR15 firing pins with the new brass WSR primers, when a primer pierces, gas escapes, and removes material from the firing pin tip. It is easy to replace an AR15 firing pin, not particularly easy to replace firing pins on most rifles and pistols.

The bottom line is cut your loads Winchester primers.
 
243winxb said:
A pierced prime is a sign of over pressure.
Click to expand...

Not always. As Slam mentions, Winchester primers have gained some notoriety for failing... I have personally had issues with such.

These are Winchester LP primers... used in both my .41MAG loads, and .45ACP... certainly not a high-pressure round.

These are 4 .45 cases where the primer pierced on the outside radius... you can see the burn mark at 12 O'clock on the brass. Note the primers don't show excessive pressure, and the load was a mid-range load.

jT7Nc6El.jpg

These are .41 cases that experienced the same issue. These loads were closer to max load, but not at it, and I experienced primer cup failure with 2 different loads... one with Unique, one with IMR4227, in 2 different firearms.

DWTW7Dql.jpg

Here is the result...

My Smith & Wesson 57... flame cutting around the firing pin bushing...

5AFNDu8l.jpg

...and the same on the bolt face of my Marlin 1894 .41MAG...

I don't know that Rio's primer piercing is a result of defective primers, per se, but I would opine that the thin cups of the Winchester primers, coupled with the deep firing pin indent, has cause piercing.... and certainly the load had an effect.

I'm like Slam... I've gone back to CCI primers exclusively and have had no problems.

RsE0Y99l.jpg
 
Sounds good, thanks for the info.

I usually play well under max loads in all my reloading, I don’t want to go overboard and damage any of my firearms.

I assembled a couple of higher-end loads for the .32 Bisley after reading numerous articles about the guns strength and seeing the loads that the writers put together. The loads I assembled were near or at max, so the next ones will be backed down some to fall into a safer pressure range.:thumbup:

These three were the only ones that showed this discoloration at the primer indentation, numerous others did not. All were WSP primers. Sadly a lot of the primed cases I have set aside already are WSP primed, and with today’s dearth of primers I think I am pretty much stuck using the components I have :(.

Again, thanks for the info and especially the firing pin area flame cutting images. I’ll certainly look for that more closely every time I am cleaning my guns :thumbup:.

Stay safe.
 
Charlie98 said:
Not always. As Slam mentions, Winchester primers have gained some notoriety for failing... I have personally had issues with such.

These are Winchester LP primers... used in both my .41MAG loads, and .45ACP... certainly not a high-pressure round.

These are 4 .45 cases where the primer pierced on the outside radius... you can see the burn mark at 12 O'clock on the brass. Note the primers don't show excessive pressure, and the load was a mid-range load.

View attachment 1019907

These are .41 cases that experienced the same issue. These loads were closer to max load, but not at it, and I experienced primer cup failure with 2 different loads... one with Unique, one with IMR4227, in 2 different firearms.

View attachment 1019908

Here is the result...

My Smith & Wesson 57... flame cutting around the firing pin bushing...

View attachment 1019909

...and the same on the bolt face of my Marlin 1894 .41MAG...

I don't know that Rio's primer piercing is a result of defective primers, per se, but I would opine that the thin cups of the Winchester primers, coupled with the deep firing pin indent, has cause piercing.... and certainly the load had an effect.

I'm like Slam... I've gone back to CCI primers exclusively and have had no problems.

View attachment 1019910
Click to expand...

Great pictures! It is my opinion, that regardless what anyone thinks, the surest solution to over pressure issues, is to cut the powder charge. I think the theoretical basis is sound, that is the case has a finite volume, and it is well known that the more powder in the case, the greater the combustion pressure. Therefore, reducing the amount of powder, in a case with finite volume, will reduce pressures. I have encountered a lot of push back on this train of thought.

There are always a lot of confounding factors, and you can tell, in denier posts, they don't want to change anything. And they are asking the shooting community for that lucky rabbit's foot that will make the problem go away. They want to hear :"Sweep the rabbit's foot twice and say the words: Out, out, evil demons of pressure" . Magic thinking won't make the problem go away. Cutting the powder charge will, and if that does not make the over pressure signs go away, cut the power charge even more.

I don't want to replace this Ruger #1 breech block, so I cut the load by two grains.

qvG7COd.jpg

Bullet velocity went from 2880 fps to 2700 fps, but so what. The earth did not stop spinning.
 
I had a problem with pierced primers with Win LR primers about 5-6 years ago. These primers were piercing not at the firing pin indentation but rather on the very edge of the primer adjacent to the primer pocket.

Win Ammo division recognized a problem and promptly refunded me the cost of my 5K case. Very good customer service…

Bayou52
 
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I ran into that in 2013 with WLP primers. I was shooing and brand new Custom 1911 45acp with reduced BE load. Contacting Winchester they paid to have the slide/barrel/bushing replaced. Plus they replaced the primers 2 for 1. I still use Win primers knowing they will cover any and all damages. Haven't had any problems since. They sent me packaging needed to send all the primers back. This is one reason I log Lot number, you never know when you will have a problem.
 
Slamfire said:
Since 1999 Winchester primers have thinner cups. That was the year Winchester redesigned their primers so they would be more sensitive and removed the nickel plating. The consequence is, pierced primers at loads that never bothered the old nickel plated primers. I switched to CCI#41's and life has been good again.

I ate up a handful of AR15 firing pins with the new brass WSR primers, when a primer pierces, gas escapes, and removes material from the firing pin tip. It is easy to replace an AR15 firing pin, not particularly easy to replace firing pins on most rifles and pistols.

The bottom line is cut your loads Winchester primers.
Click to expand...

That’s good info. Thank you. I thought Winchester primers seemed a little more pliable than they used to. I typically buy CCI primers but with the “silliness” that’s going on I bought some Winchester primers when I had a chance to get some primers. I hadn’t used Winchester primers in years and thought they seemed a little softer.
 
Oh boy, due to availability I just loaded a small batch of Berry's 240gr jacketed with 23.5 gr H110 for my 0.44. And, due to current limited LP primer stash, I used those WLP's.

Guess I'll inspecting the primers each cylinder dump
 
I just checked the Brazos bullets site and I don't see a 32 cal. WC bullet available from them. No 100gr .312" bullets either. What's up with that? Are you sure you are using the correct bullet for your 32 H&R Magnum?

BTW, you didn't mention the cartridge you are loading for, I only know from the picture of the brass.
 
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