Lil help please. My day off goes bad. .223 bullet seating related

The standard sizing die actually under sizes the neck of the case, then the expander ball expands it to the correct size. this way it is not critical for all of the cases to have the exact same neck thickness. you should have 2-3 thousands of neck tension meaning the bullet should be .002 to .003 larger than the inside dia of the sized case. So when you put the case with a bullet already seated their is no way the die can resize the case+bullet.

bangbig said:

I confirmed I had used the correct one.

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Do you have more than one for this die? Did you use a bushing die by mistake?

$40 mistake... you still have all your fingers, and anyone of them is worth more than $40...

bangbig said:

2 hours of my day off, no rounds loaded, stuck case with live primer, and a few questions.

Started loading 223 last year. Tried a couple different bullets and powders, finally got a fair amount of brass prepped and decided this was the weekend to load up 500 of one of the projectiles I had a load I settled on.

3rd throw into it, I seat the bullet, and for some odd reason decided to see what kind of tension it had, and gave it a good hard one handed push on the top of the bench. Watched and felt it push back about .030".

After confirming my prior reloads did not do this (at least the few I had left, different projectile as well), I grabbed my shtf factory rounds, and could do the same thing.

1. How much tension should there be? I chambered a dozen rounds, and one set back .035".

2. Should I not use the expander ball? I confirmed I had used the correct one.

I don't have micrometers here, but do have a real set of calipers. These Hornaday fmj's measure a fraction of a thousandth smaller than the other projectiles I have on hand. However the other projectiles get the same results.

I had the great idea of re-sizing a couple of already sized cases without the expander to see if that made a difference. That's where the stuck case with live primer came from.

Not my best day off...

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Do you have a universal de-capper? If so. Put on safety glasses and use the rod to push the primer out.
If not. I learned in my childhood. A hammer and nail set will set off a primer. If the beach l brass is held in a vice.
Neither the high road nor I endorse using a nail set and hammer. Do so at your own risk.

bangbig said:

The new starline that supppsedly don't need sized before use measure .215". Quite a bit smaller.

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I have purchased a fair amount of Starline..
1st thing I do is run it in the tumbler with corncob and a bit of polish - my press doesn't really care for the "squeaky clean" new brass...
2nd thing is to FL size it no matter the caliber...I guess it's an assurance to me....

bangbig said:

How much tension should there be?

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35 pounds, minimum, to move a bullet. Can be tested on a digital bathroom scale, slowly apply pressure to a dummy round. The neck OD should expand a minimum of .002" after seating a bullet.

is there leftover lube from sizing in the case neck?

If I read this correctly, you had .035-ish setback when chambering a round (?). If so, are the lands pushing the bullet into the case? If you are not doing that on purpose (there are techniques that push the bullet into the lands intentionally) it means the bullet is seated too far out. If this only happens occasionally, are you using more than 1 style of bullet? (tip of the bullet to rifling contact varies). If they are super loose you can get some bullet pull if you single load a semi auto by placing a round in the chamber and releasing the bolt. No crimp on these? 35 pounds on a 223 round with lube in the neck and no crimp and shallow seated actually does not sound too far off, maybe soft brass or a slightly (.001) oversized expander ball?

Did you get the case out of the die?

You could measure a few sized/expanded case necks, mark where you measure. Then load them and measure the same point with the bullet seated. It should be .002 to .003 larger.

If I'm reading you correctly the problem is you resized already sized cases (with primers) without using the expander again and that's when you had the stuck case. After that I'm not sure what happened because you apparently had problems with factory rounds. What am I missing?

As @243winxb says, measure the neck before and after seating for the interference dimension. A ball micrometer is the only accurate way to measure the brass thickness it’s self. With a caliper the measurement will be smaller than actual size, so you may not have as much tension as you think.

bangbig said:

1. How much tension should there be?

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I use an interference fit of .004” for auto loaders, and just .001” on a bench gun. A range of .002”-.004” is good.

I use the firearm to test for setback. I can whack a bullet hard enough on a bench to move it, no matter the tension. I just need it to stay put during the loading cycle, or until everything is crush fit to the chamber in a target gun. That said, for all but that one rifle, I use the most tension I can get. Setback is undesirable in a rifle, it is dangerous in a pistol and very unpleasant in a Desert Eagle.

bangbig said:

2. Should I not use the expander ball?

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If that is in fact where the extra tolerance is being introduce, and your bullet bases can endure the fitting, then take the expander out and try it. I suspect it may be a little too tight without it.

You might try sizing the brass without an expander, then replace it and just flare the mouth with it, like a pistol case. Then it will be easier to start the bullet but still leave the neck with the most tension possible.

Some bullets are bore rider style and have the full diameter only at the base or just above the boat tail. Be sure you are getting the full diameter.

And remember, a loose bullet cannot be crimped tight. Hope that gives you some ideas for your setup. Happy loading!

bangbig said:

Lol. Primer and stuck case taken care of.

I resized empty cases that were already sized, NOT loaded cases. But they were primed.

Just using calipers inside jaws, my cases measure .220. So I have .004" ish neck tension,, a least at the top of the case..

The new starline that supppsedly don't need sized before use measure .215". Quite a bit smaller.

Only own one 223 die.

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You still need lube in cases that were sized, even if they are primed.

ALWAYS size cases before loading them, even if the manufacturer says it's not required.

You can, of course, adjust neck tension by adjusting the die height, or get a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

What dies are you using. If you have a lee set with the mandrel and neck sizing die you can get different mandrels. I use a different type of mandrel and die because I can set basically any tension I want in .0005 increments. The other path is to polish down in small steps your expander ball.