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dredd
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Well, kBob, you are late to the game, but at least you made it!
Thanks for chiming in!!!
Thanks for chiming in!!!
M1 Carbine by Plainfield Machine Co.
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Speedo66
Member
Here’s the Carbine I mentioned above, along with a pack of paper wrapped GI magazines from 1961.
amd6547
Member
The first long arm I bought was a Plainfield Carbine. Growing up, Plainfield and Universals we're for sale in every discount store and Sears. They were displayed right out in the sporting good aisle, no case, no locks, and with a stack of ammo next to them.
The Plainfield I had was a fantastic shooter. Interestingly, it was about 90 percent M2, missing only the selector, spring, and trip lever, to be a machine gun.
Unfortunately, I decided I just had to have a Mini14, and sold the Plainfield to help fund a stainless Mini.
Regretted that the first time I shot that Mini 14...it shot bigger groups at 50yds than the Plainfield did at 100yds.
Today, I have a CMP Inland, and an Auto Ordnance...but I still miss that Plainfield.
The Plainfield I had was a fantastic shooter. Interestingly, it was about 90 percent M2, missing only the selector, spring, and trip lever, to be a machine gun.
Unfortunately, I decided I just had to have a Mini14, and sold the Plainfield to help fund a stainless Mini.
Regretted that the first time I shot that Mini 14...it shot bigger groups at 50yds than the Plainfield did at 100yds.
Today, I have a CMP Inland, and an Auto Ordnance...but I still miss that Plainfield.
The Happy Kaboomer
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Please show me proof that Univerals/Plainfield carbine copies were ever used in combat anywhere in the world? There were plenty of US Carbines in the Allied arsenal around the world for any Us agency to use. 6 million made. The Universals/Plainfields/Iver Johnsons were never much count for reliable use. Especially after they quit using used GI parts to make them. The later ones with the dual recoil spring system were terrible. Also show Proof that some were reimported
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I provided relavent links. Did you read them?
As for why commercial Carbines would have been supplied to S.Vietnam.....this would have given the Agency plausible deniability that they were the source of the weapons and allowed them to sidestep normal aquisition and congressional oversight requirements necessary for the transfer of official US property such as GI guns.
As for why commercial Carbines would have been supplied to S.Vietnam.....this would have given the Agency plausible deniability that they were the source of the weapons and allowed them to sidestep normal aquisition and congressional oversight requirements necessary for the transfer of official US property such as GI guns.
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Zygodactyl
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One way to help with reliability with 30 round magazines is to install a M2 magazine catch. It has an extension to engage the raised lump on the 30 round magazine body and helps support the weight of the loaded mag. They are marked with a M with a line over it.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Commercial Plainfield M1 Carbines were used by US civilian police with good reports. Some Plainfields were bought by South Vietnamese officers as personal weapons and passed on to US personnel in Vietnam. The vast majority of M1 Carbines used in Vietnam were original GI. I am of the impression that later commercial Universal and Iver Johnson M1 Carbines saw no use in Viet Nam.
On the side track, problems with M1 Carbines are often traced to problems with magazines. I've read that M1 carbine magazines were designed to be light and expendable and the original intent was to issue .30 M1 Carbine ammo in preloaded 15 rd magazines, just as .30-06 M1 rifle ammo was often issued in preloaded 8 rd enbloc clips.
I have an IBM made M1 Carbine 1943 with all the Korean War Era updates. I have 15rd and 30rd magazines, some GI issue, some clearly commercial aftermarket, and oddly all feed correctly. Including one I bought for $5 with badly rusted feed lips that cleaned up with gaps.
I did buy an aftermarket market 40rd magazine that the gunshow vendor apologized for and warned me it was just a range toy, don't depend on it for varmint hunting or defense. At full capacity it was not dependable, but I cut it down and made a reliable 10 rd magazine that runs well, good size for sight checks off the bench using sandbags.
On the side track, problems with M1 Carbines are often traced to problems with magazines. I've read that M1 carbine magazines were designed to be light and expendable and the original intent was to issue .30 M1 Carbine ammo in preloaded 15 rd magazines, just as .30-06 M1 rifle ammo was often issued in preloaded 8 rd enbloc clips.
I have an IBM made M1 Carbine 1943 with all the Korean War Era updates. I have 15rd and 30rd magazines, some GI issue, some clearly commercial aftermarket, and oddly all feed correctly. Including one I bought for $5 with badly rusted feed lips that cleaned up with gaps.
I did buy an aftermarket market 40rd magazine that the gunshow vendor apologized for and warned me it was just a range toy, don't depend on it for varmint hunting or defense. At full capacity it was not dependable, but I cut it down and made a reliable 10 rd magazine that runs well, good size for sight checks off the bench using sandbags.
JCooperfan1911
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During WW2 magazines and ammo were packaged separately for carbines. They were not pre loaded.
kBob
Member
WW II ammo was issued in bandoleers, on stripper clips of ten rounds. Each bandolier pocket contained a cardboard sheath with two ten round stripper clips in the sleeve.
each stripper clip had an attached “spoon” to connect the stripper to a magazine for loading.
eventually they went to a bare stripper clip and saved steel and production time by issuing a single removable and reusable “spoon” with each bandolier ( and smart guys kept one on or about their person)
Ammo was issued over time in both “ammo cans” beloved by all (who never had to carry a number of them miles or days in the field) or “Spam” cans.
while all US carbine ammo was non corrosive, during WW II some lots of carbine ammo were steel cased. Dummy rounds were steel cased.
yes having an odd number of WW II 15 round mags means you end up with a stripper clip with five rounds left on it.
I do not recall if it was the Carbine bandoleer, Garand bandoleer, of Springfield bandoleer, but one or the other was just right for stuffing loaded 15 round carbine mags in.
Ammo was also issued in 50 round boxes (bricks)
as kid I saved my bandoleers and stuff and when i got boxed bricks reloaded the strippers. After a few reloadings one lock tab or the other would break off and they became trash ….. just like AR strippers today.
as for the corrosive French Ammo, it came evertime I found it in the brick boxes, but loaded on and from the strippers just fine.
I have always preferred 15 round magazines.
in the 1960’s the commercial M2 marked 30 were everywhere and they either worked in your rifle of did not and individually worked in a rifle or did not. You could have two side by side and visually inspect them for no differences and one would work in rifle or not. It was frustrating.
so I stuck with fifteen rounders. If a 15 rounder started failing I used a hammer on it… as in flattened it on the vise so no one would try to use it and toss it in the land fill trash. I have done the same with AR mags and converted -16 to -180 mags.
-kBob
each stripper clip had an attached “spoon” to connect the stripper to a magazine for loading.
eventually they went to a bare stripper clip and saved steel and production time by issuing a single removable and reusable “spoon” with each bandolier ( and smart guys kept one on or about their person)
Ammo was issued over time in both “ammo cans” beloved by all (who never had to carry a number of them miles or days in the field) or “Spam” cans.
while all US carbine ammo was non corrosive, during WW II some lots of carbine ammo were steel cased. Dummy rounds were steel cased.
yes having an odd number of WW II 15 round mags means you end up with a stripper clip with five rounds left on it.
I do not recall if it was the Carbine bandoleer, Garand bandoleer, of Springfield bandoleer, but one or the other was just right for stuffing loaded 15 round carbine mags in.
Ammo was also issued in 50 round boxes (bricks)
as kid I saved my bandoleers and stuff and when i got boxed bricks reloaded the strippers. After a few reloadings one lock tab or the other would break off and they became trash ….. just like AR strippers today.
as for the corrosive French Ammo, it came evertime I found it in the brick boxes, but loaded on and from the strippers just fine.
I have always preferred 15 round magazines.
in the 1960’s the commercial M2 marked 30 were everywhere and they either worked in your rifle of did not and individually worked in a rifle or did not. You could have two side by side and visually inspect them for no differences and one would work in rifle or not. It was frustrating.
so I stuck with fifteen rounders. If a 15 rounder started failing I used a hammer on it… as in flattened it on the vise so no one would try to use it and toss it in the land fill trash. I have done the same with AR mags and converted -16 to -180 mags.
-kBob
trackskippy
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The Carbine bandoleers will carry the 15 round mags just fine. I keep a couple loaded with them handy.
A slightly modified SKS chest bag works great for the 30 rounders, and will carry 10 loaded mags, plus one for the gun if you're keeping it with one. The modification is just a piece of paracord on each pocket. This is a much better set up than anything on your belt, and is very comfortable.
I use a couple of the GI mags that I have that work pretty reliably for range mags. They let you work on random and unplanned stoppages, most of which are just a slight pull back on the charging handle and a slight shake. Sometimes its a double feed, but again, usually just a shake to get it going again.
Inevitably, when the gun stops running, its one of those mags that's in the gun when it happens. But, to be fair, who knows how old they are and what they've been through. Some I have wont make it through a mag without multiple stoppages. I use the bad ones for dryfire practice.
I have a bunch of both the 15 and 30 rounders and do prefer the 15 rounders for general shooting. The 30 rounders work fine, with and without the later mag catch, I have guns with both and never had any problems, but the gun is just handier with the 15 rounders.
No need for the hammer to demil the mags if you've got a Rottie or two around.
Our one pup got a hold of a mag pouch with two empty mags in it and proceeded to "demill" the lot. Your hammer would be jealous.
Of all the military rifles Ive owned and shot, the Carbines mags are about the flimsiest most prone to problems. If you've got some that work, baby them and take care of them. Luckily, the new Korean mags work great, are readily available, and are much cheaper than any of the NOS GI mags, or even just used GI mags. Some even come with BHO followers, if you like that sort of thing. Buy a bunch and you'll be good to go.
A slightly modified SKS chest bag works great for the 30 rounders, and will carry 10 loaded mags, plus one for the gun if you're keeping it with one. The modification is just a piece of paracord on each pocket. This is a much better set up than anything on your belt, and is very comfortable.
I use a couple of the GI mags that I have that work pretty reliably for range mags. They let you work on random and unplanned stoppages, most of which are just a slight pull back on the charging handle and a slight shake. Sometimes its a double feed, but again, usually just a shake to get it going again.
Inevitably, when the gun stops running, its one of those mags that's in the gun when it happens. But, to be fair, who knows how old they are and what they've been through. Some I have wont make it through a mag without multiple stoppages. I use the bad ones for dryfire practice.
I have a bunch of both the 15 and 30 rounders and do prefer the 15 rounders for general shooting. The 30 rounders work fine, with and without the later mag catch, I have guns with both and never had any problems, but the gun is just handier with the 15 rounders.
No need for the hammer to demil the mags if you've got a Rottie or two around.
Our one pup got a hold of a mag pouch with two empty mags in it and proceeded to "demill" the lot. Your hammer would be jealous.
Of all the military rifles Ive owned and shot, the Carbines mags are about the flimsiest most prone to problems. If you've got some that work, baby them and take care of them. Luckily, the new Korean mags work great, are readily available, and are much cheaper than any of the NOS GI mags, or even just used GI mags. Some even come with BHO followers, if you like that sort of thing. Buy a bunch and you'll be good to go.
kBob
Member
When we talk Carbine Mags I always wish for a time machine.
as a kid, my Dad would take me to Parramore’s Surplus and Salvage Sales of Mt. Pleasant Florida.
some claimed that “Hootie” Parramore was the model for Millo Menderbender (Catch-22) and I never doubted it
He bought government surplus by the ton. Literally made a million selling Sherman tank tracks and Scooter Jet parts to the Israelis.
you could find about anything there.
At 14 right after I got my carbine, I was searching around one of the old hanger like buildings and found ammo cans of M1 Garand parts. He had new in wrap GI Barrels and take offs that were muzzle and chamber no worse than 2 gauge…. Labeled and priced as “crowbars”, ammo cans of loose mixed Garand
Small parts and cans of the tin foil lined envelope action parts. Everthing but recievers and wood!
some of this sat on a wooden foot locker which I had to know what was in.
it was FULL of arsenal wrapped Carbine mags. These were the inspected and repacked WWII mags. I found a shoe box like thing laying about and filled it and took it to the throne room (Hootie’s office)He ask where I got them from, mumbles something about remembering where they were, hefted the box as though weighing it glanced at my envelopes of Garand bolt parts and pronounced “$0.50 a piece for the magazines and we’ll throw in those parts.
I parted with a ten spot and left to sit in the car while Dad finished his “shopping” least Hootie come to his senses and want more!
Magazines were between $1.50 and $2 for GI at the time in “real” stores.
I think over the years I gave away half those magazines and have one still in the wrap.
now I wish I had that time machine and that footlocker full of 15 round carbine mags…. And those Garand parts, and the Stuart tank, and the 75mm Pack howitzers, and BSA courier motor bikes, and bales of Captured Italian Uniforms from North Africa, Flying Bananna helicopter…. Et Al!!!!!!
shoot he had mounds of 1940’s vintage web gear and leather gear.
The most disturbing thing he had was a Waldo set up with inch thick armored glass and I wondered what sort of horrible toxic stuff had been handled with it. Did it glow in the dark?
Sorry, it like Hootie is gone now and we can no longer visit it, but as Dad once said “Son, what are you going to do with a round submarine hatch in its housing?”
-kBob
as a kid, my Dad would take me to Parramore’s Surplus and Salvage Sales of Mt. Pleasant Florida.
some claimed that “Hootie” Parramore was the model for Millo Menderbender (Catch-22) and I never doubted it
He bought government surplus by the ton. Literally made a million selling Sherman tank tracks and Scooter Jet parts to the Israelis.
you could find about anything there.
At 14 right after I got my carbine, I was searching around one of the old hanger like buildings and found ammo cans of M1 Garand parts. He had new in wrap GI Barrels and take offs that were muzzle and chamber no worse than 2 gauge…. Labeled and priced as “crowbars”, ammo cans of loose mixed Garand
Small parts and cans of the tin foil lined envelope action parts. Everthing but recievers and wood!
some of this sat on a wooden foot locker which I had to know what was in.
it was FULL of arsenal wrapped Carbine mags. These were the inspected and repacked WWII mags. I found a shoe box like thing laying about and filled it and took it to the throne room (Hootie’s office)He ask where I got them from, mumbles something about remembering where they were, hefted the box as though weighing it glanced at my envelopes of Garand bolt parts and pronounced “$0.50 a piece for the magazines and we’ll throw in those parts.
I parted with a ten spot and left to sit in the car while Dad finished his “shopping” least Hootie come to his senses and want more!
Magazines were between $1.50 and $2 for GI at the time in “real” stores.
I think over the years I gave away half those magazines and have one still in the wrap.
now I wish I had that time machine and that footlocker full of 15 round carbine mags…. And those Garand parts, and the Stuart tank, and the 75mm Pack howitzers, and BSA courier motor bikes, and bales of Captured Italian Uniforms from North Africa, Flying Bananna helicopter…. Et Al!!!!!!
shoot he had mounds of 1940’s vintage web gear and leather gear.
The most disturbing thing he had was a Waldo set up with inch thick armored glass and I wondered what sort of horrible toxic stuff had been handled with it. Did it glow in the dark?
Sorry, it like Hootie is gone now and we can no longer visit it, but as Dad once said “Son, what are you going to do with a round submarine hatch in its housing?”
-kBob
trackskippy
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LOL. All that stuff is gold now. A few years back here, the state changed its unemployment rules and I couldn't collect over lay off, so I went through all the old boxes and trays of old gun parts I had in the basement and started selling things on eBay.
M1 Garand parts were bringing the most, and I had boxes of them. Things like a front handguard I paid $10 for at a guns show, sold for $200. Rear sights, $100. I was making more money a week selling that crap, than I was making on prevailing wage rate overtime while working, and only working 8 hours a week doing it to boot.
M1 Garand parts were bringing the most, and I had boxes of them. Things like a front handguard I paid $10 for at a guns show, sold for $200. Rear sights, $100. I was making more money a week selling that crap, than I was making on prevailing wage rate overtime while working, and only working 8 hours a week doing it to boot.
The Happy Kaboomer
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Some may have been used by coming in the back door. All kinds of guns appeared in VN......Even single action Rugers. I don't believe any American solder would depend on a plainfield carbine for combat use. They are just not that good.
kBob
Member
My Platoon( in Germany in 1973)medic was a big fan of the Ruger Blackhawk .357 Single action revolver.
he simply carried it to VN in 70 and back in 71 without bothering to paper it. He did have everything all papered right for USAERand as he lived in the barracks kept it in the arms room.
when I went to demo school in 1975 I tried something he taught me and it worked very well. Half a stick of C4 in an M60 GPMG canvas ammo bag stuffed among about 200 empty links, non electric cap, two inches of fuze, ancient M2 ignighter.
tore cardboard targets two meters away to shreds. He was torn. The Ruger was more accurate and discriminating in daylight but the home built grenade worked better at night.
-kBob
he simply carried it to VN in 70 and back in 71 without bothering to paper it. He did have everything all papered right for USAERand as he lived in the barracks kept it in the arms room.
when I went to demo school in 1975 I tried something he taught me and it worked very well. Half a stick of C4 in an M60 GPMG canvas ammo bag stuffed among about 200 empty links, non electric cap, two inches of fuze, ancient M2 ignighter.
tore cardboard targets two meters away to shreds. He was torn. The Ruger was more accurate and discriminating in daylight but the home built grenade worked better at night.
-kBob
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Funny you should mention that. Not only did I bring a Type 99 Arisaka with bayonet to school for 8th Grade show and tell, but our Principal brought a beautiful '03 Springfield in one time during History class and passed around a stripper clip of live black-tipped AP rounds for everyone to fondle.
Better days in many ways.......
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