class action against Sig

Lots of “jelly bois” who are upset their favorite let Glock didn’t win the Army contract.

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Oh, and SIG just won the replacement contract for the M4 carbines... that’s huge, and there’s sure to be plenty of baseless lawsuits inbound for that as well!

JCooperfan1911 said:

Lots of “jelly bois” who are upset their favorite let Glock didn’t win the Army contract.

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Click to expand...

Remington swore up and down there was nothing wrong with the Walker trigger and many others did too. Especially in the early days.

Listen I know plenty of guys who have used and abused the 320 in situations where they've had to put a lot of rounds through it at other people as part of their job. None of them have had any problems with the trigger systems or pretty much anything. It's pretty highly regarded. I'm a firm believer that most of the people who have problems with the sig 320 are either dicking around with it or have modified the triggers to the point where it wouldn't be wise no matter what pistol platform it was. Most of the stories I've heard of people dropping a gun and having it go off are excluding significant parts of those stories that are contributing factors.

I'm not even a fan of the sig 320 because I can't shoot it well and I think it's bore axis is too high for the way I shoot but I think there are a lot of people who hate on it without really knowing why.

So basically Sig is being sued because morons can't follow the 4 rules of gun safety...

Cayle said:

So basically Sig is being sued because morons can't follow the 4 rules of gun safety...

Click to expand...

If those rules were followed to a T, even a STEn would be “safe.”

JCooperfan1911 said:

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Click to expand...

I suspect there actually might be at least some circumstantial evidence, otherwise I doubt there'd be any traction at all. I've read some accounts, and find some of them to be quite interesting. Guns going off spontaneously in duty holsters, and that type of thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm curious about the outcome.

WrongHanded said:

I suspect there actually might be at least some circumstantial evidence, otherwise I doubt there'd be any traction at all. I've read some accounts, and find some of them to be quite interesting. Guns going off spontaneously in duty holsters, and that type of thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm curious about the outcome.

Click to expand...

It requires a considerable amount of research, but most of the publicized cases have all been debunked. A TTAG writer ran down all the alleged cases last year, and the situation is much ado about nothing

In fact, there was a good body of evidence that some of the cases involved NDs that were trying to be covered up by the persons involved.

This court case is just a case of a judge observing legal protocol, and the original plaintiff is basing his entire lawsuit on just TWO cases, one of which was alleged to be a discharge in a female detective's purse.

JCooperfan1911 said:

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws....

Click to expand...

Huh?
There is plenty of evidence, videos of the the pistol firing when dropped to the changes the military ordered.
That evidence isn't difficult to find......just ask SIG why they did a recall to address those flaws with the original design.

Old Dog said:

It requires a considerable amount of research, but most of the publicized cases have all been debunked. A TTAG writer ran down all the alleged cases last year, and the situation is much ado about nothing

In fact, there was a good body of evidence that some of the cases involved NDs that were trying to be covered up by the persons involved.

This court case is just a case of a judge observing legal protocol, and the original plaintiff is basing his entire lawsuit on just TWO cases, one of which was alleged to be a discharge in a female detective's purse.

Click to expand...

It surprises me not one but that some people have attempted to use the issue to cover up their own negligence. If only the FBI recruit that had his Glock fall from a holster whilst doing a backflip at a nigh club had been carrying a P320 instead.

Alec Baldwin seems to have found a design flaw in the Colt 45 ...

dogtown tom said:

There is plenty of evidence, videos of the the pistol firing when dropped to the changes the military ordered.

Click to expand...

The burden of proof is on the affirmative, let's see 'em...

TFB has a video on the issue.

Another officer has joined the lawsuit claiming that the gun went off in her holster as she walked to her patrol car.

JCooperfan1911 said:

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Click to expand...

WrongHanded said:

TFB has a video on the issue.

Click to expand...

Looks like a design flaw to me. And I do know about the "voluntary upgrade" Sig put out to fix this issue. But to say the P320 didn't have any design flaws is not correct.





Look, I'm not big on Sig's, they are great guns in their own right especially their older hammer fired guns they just have never been my cup of tea. But early in the P320 there were some clear safety issues that Sig supposedly has cleared up and if that is the case then these recent lawsuits are very similar to the unfounded "Glock Leg" issues of people not keeping their finger off the trigger or having something in the holster causing trigger pull, which would be a failure of administrative handling of the firearms. The early issues with the P320 gives some credibility to these lawsuits, but without further investigation into Sig's upgrade (or how widespread the issue was/is) and whether it has fixed the issue it is difficult to know if there is a true ongoing trigger issue or if it's Sig's version of "Glock Leg," and nothing more.

Would be nice if TFB or Omaha Outdoors would do a follow up on a Sig "voluntarily upgraded" pistol and see if the same result can be attained. And maybe this will occur with the court cases they are faced with.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Lots of “jelly bois” who are upset their favorite let Glock didn’t win the Army contract.

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Oh, and SIG just won the replacement contract for the M4 carbines... that’s huge, and there’s sure to be plenty of baseless lawsuits inbound for that as well!

Click to expand...

Mispec fanboy, is too obvious. Are you serious?

Sig has been hot water for non-drop safe pistols, for a while, guys. It's just now getting through the courts.

Do you have a linky for the Sig M4 replacement? All I know of is a SAW replacement awarded to SIG. Which appears to be a decent machine.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Lots of “jelly bois” who are upset their favorite let Glock didn’t win the Army contract.

0 evidence the P320 has any design flaws.

Oh, and SIG just won the replacement contract for the M4 carbines... that’s huge, and there’s sure to be plenty of baseless lawsuits inbound for that as well!

Click to expand...

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black. To automatically assume that Glock not winning a contract has anything to do with it is presumptuous. I don't like haters any more than the fan boys.

Sig has made many guns. Had the SEAL and NCIS, postal services, homeland security, air marshalls..... and other US contracts... yet these accusations only came forward with this one gun not the 22x from all those others. (And many had the dreadful DAK trigger too) Maybe it's not just whatever a "Jelly boi" may be.

earlthegoat2 said:

Remington swore up and down there was nothing wrong with the Walker trigger and many others did too. Especially in the early days.

Click to expand...

daniel craig said:

Listen I know plenty of guys who have used and abused the 320 in situations where they've had to put a lot of rounds through it at other people as part of their job. None of them have had any problems with the trigger systems or pretty much anything. It's pretty highly regarded. I'm a firm believer that most of the people who have problems with the sig 320 are either dicking around with it or have modified the triggers to the point where it wouldn't be wise no matter what pistol platform it was. Most of the stories I've heard of people dropping a gun and having it go off are excluding significant parts of those stories that are contributing factors.

I'm not even a fan of the sig 320 because I can't shoot it well and I think it's bore axis is too high for the way I shoot but I think there are a lot of people who hate on it without really knowing why.

Click to expand...

Just like stated above. Remington denied the walker trigger had issues for a hell of a lot longer and more guns than the sig 320. Since the 40s in fact. I used them for 30 years with no issue. People used millions. Did that mean there wasn't an issue?


I have remington 7 series rifles with the walker. I have Glocks and sig 320s. I don't care either way. I don't care for sigs policies but otherwise I like their guns. Especially the 22x guns, but the 320 is a good shooter too.

Zerodefect said:

Mispec fanboy, is too obvious. Are you serious?

Sig has been hot water for non-drop safe pistols, for a while, guys. It's just now getting through the courts.

Do you have a linky for the Sig M4 replacement? All I know of is a SAW replacement awarded to SIG. Which appears to be a decent machine.

Click to expand...

Just go to sigs website. I got an email from them. They are replacing SOME M4 (16k this year) and SOME 249. With the 277 telescoping ammo guns.

crestoncowboy said:

Just go to sigs website. I got an email from them. They are replacing the M4 and 249. With the 277 telescoping ammo guns.

Click to expand...

Those are going through trials, they won a 10-year $20m contract for expanded trialing, looking into ammo development, manufacturing facility costs and implementation and production capacity, much like many other moth-balled designs have gone through. Don't hold your breath on the M4 or M249 going anywhere, anytime soon.

BreechFace said:

Those are going through trials, they won a 10-year $20m contract for expanded trialing, much like many other moth-balled designs have gone through. Don't hold your breath on the M4 or M249 going anywhere, anytime soon.

Click to expand...

Its to field nearly 20k guns. A delivery order

crestoncowboy said:

Its to field nearly 20k guns. A delivery order

Click to expand...

Wake me up when Big Army drops the "X" designator before it's name.

The SCAR-H went through a similar process back in 2008ish? And yet we are still fielding M4/M16's.

Not saying Sig's new 6.8 isn't the one to displace the Stoner era but it's too early to tell.

I'm getting off in the weeds with this conversation on this thread but it is being discussed already in this thread. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-next-army-rifle.904762/page-5#post-12281634

BreechFace said:

Wake me up when Big Army drops the "X" designator before it's name.

The SCAR-H went through a similar process back in 2008ish? And yet we are still fielding M4/M16's.

Not saying Sig's new 6.8 isn't the one to displace the Stoner era but it's too early to tell.

I'm getting off in the weeds with this conversation on this thread but it is being discussed already in this thread. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-next-army-rifle.904762/page-5#post-12281634

Click to expand...

I spend almost no time on forums. May be 3 months between posts. So hadn't seen the other one. I did get that email from sig. I don't believe it will replace anything either. Just saying that it is an order for 16k of the rifles. I wouldn't really say its the end of the stoner era either. Still a derivative.

And yeah I remember the SCAR l and H

Old Dog said:

The burden of proof is on the affirmative, let's see 'em...

Click to expand...

Slept through 2017?
It's old news, rehashed monthly, not a secret and easily found by Googling.
Im not doing your research.

The root cause of the problem, being that the momentum of the trigger on impact is enough for it to pull itself, is exactly why most every other company's striker fired pistol has a built in safety trigger... such as the Glock scissor design (copied by most), or the M&P hinged trigger. Those funky triggers are made that way for a reason! I would think Sig would have realized that.