Springfield Test

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Extractor Swap

Howdy C-5 Driver,

Not much trouble to get the old one out. Knock the pin out from left to right...so it only has to come out part-way...with a 1/16th punch. (.056 dia.)
The ejector is glued in with loc-tite...so you'll have to clamp it in a vise and pull straight out on the frame. Rocking it ever-so-gently lengthwise will
help...but be careful not to break the pins off in the frame.

The new one will need to have a notch filed in it for the pin to pass through.
That's the tricky part. Too low, and the ejector won't sit flush on the frame. Too high, and the pin won't go through it. I remove the finish,
put it in the frame, and use the steel punch to mark it. File the notch with a
round needle file. File a little and check it...file a little more and check it, until the pin will go through. Some aftermarket ejectors require filing on the butt-end to make them fit flush with the frame and slide at the back.
An extended ejector will probably need to be shortened a little at a time
on the nose for best function. You may kill the ejector on your first try.

Luck!

Tuner
 
Your extractor sounds like mine. It came without any tension -corrected before first firing. The SA extractor worked ok through 900 rounds then relaxed and was replaced. The titanium firing pin would crack remington factory load primers but not PMC reliably or CCI at all- replaced with heavy duty.

Slide was bored on the bias and overlarge for the barrel resulting in 7" groups at 25 yards. Corrected by match bushing and welding. Trigger 7.5 pounds. In short, it was a complete rebuild by Tenring Precision.

firingpin.jpg


milspecbweld.jpg


It will do this now
milspecgroup_a.jpg


Just about everybody is having better luck with the milspec than I did and I have seen only positive comments about current production and the newer and more mil speckier version of the pistol
 
Yet another unbiased, glowing report on the Tuner's Super Deluxe Majic Slurry Stuff & Athlete's Foot Remover. I had about 40 rounds through a brand-new Springfield 1911A1, and realized the rear sight was going to require the Supreme Move Mayhem - in other words a slight 2 or 3 taps to the right.
The gun shot O.K. before. After taking it apart, slurring, sliding and the always fun slight sight tap, then cleaning, oiling and reassembly, the O.K. jumped up several notches to really, really, really, really O.K.! The process works; it's cheap; it helps build muscles so you don't have to even think about low carb/cardboard like food; plus I had most it finished while watching my favorite shootin' & huntin' programs on the tv screen. Who could ask for more?
 
1911Tuner:

Here is what I ended up with as my preferred parts list when I rebuilt my Kimber Series I Pro CDP:

Medium length Grieder (Videcki) solid trigger
EGW "hard" sear with primary angle stoned a bit more positive and minimal relief angle
Ed Brown barstock hammer
Colt or McCormick hammer strut
Ed Brown hardcore sear spring (longer disconnector finger)
Briley barstock disconnector
Les Baer Grip safety
Ed Brown barstock checkered main spring housing
Wilson barstock slide stop
Ed Brown tactical narrow thumb safety
Nowlin ground pin set
Ed Brown firing pin with HD Wolff spring
STI tight fit firing pin stop (minimum radius on bottom)
Caspian extractor-took some fitting (Wilson bulletproof also worked well)
Grieder standard length mag release with Wolff HD spring
ISMI flat spring recoil system

So far ejector looks OK but is a MIM part. Probably will replace it with an Ed Brown. Gun has never missed a beat since new. Approx 2000 rds.

Mags are Wilson 7rd with Wolff +5% springs or McCormick Powermags with Metalform dimpled flat followers and 11# Wolff springs.
 
WOW DBR... that's quite a list. But I have to ask. For what you spent on the initial gun purchase, then for all the customizing and parts replacement, what did you wind up spending on the gun? Would that same money have bought a fine Baer or a little used Brown or Wilson?

I too have put a bunch of money into a production-grade gun and later felt that I should have just spent the extra money up front and bought a known-quality 1911 with premium stuff in it to begin with. Unfortunately, if we ever decide to sell one of these highly modified 1911's, a production grade 1911 with all changed out parts can only be seen in the eyes of a potential buyer as a "frankenpistol" of unknown quality. A stock Brown, Baer, or Wilson is a well known, high grade product which is much easier to resell.

I don't mean to imply that the highly modified production gun isn't necessarily a fine pistol... it may be really fine or not so fine... just depends.

Hopefully this discussion may help educate a new 1911 buyer on the trade offs of upgrading production guns vs. buying semi-customs to begin with.
 
DHart

To be honest, I did not add up the parts prices. It didn't matter. I get jobber prices at Brownells and I did all of the work myself. I have the tools and I know how to use them.

I couldn't get a gun like this one from any outfit I am aware of. 4"SS slide, 7075 T7 aluminum frame, complete melt and each part is exactly what I wanted fitted the way I wanted - no compromise.

I own several Baers and an Ed Brown. They are great guns. This gun is built better and on balance the part quality and fit up is better. Resale value is not an issue for me.
 
DBR... that's great. You have the best of both worlds then. Also nice to get the parts at discount and be able to do the work yourself. I'll bet you're very proud of that "custom" of yours.

I have a Kimber Compact (all steel) which I've been tweaking... Eclipse finish, night sights, Wilson fire control parts and slide stop. Still need to do some more parts replacement and I think I'll ditch the mag well. I do like the gun, but I have dumped quite a bit of dough into it which I know I'll never see again. In retrospect, I think I would have preferred a Baer 4", but oh well.

Kimber Compact Stainless-Eclipse Custom/Victor Tibbets
CompSS4719.jpg


CompSS4724.jpg


I have a bunch of Colts (my favorite 1911's), a Springfield TRP, and Brown as well:

Ed Brown Class A Bobtail Commander
EB4913a.jpg


EB4912a.jpg
 
DHart:

Very nice pieces.

My experience with Baer and Brown is that there is still some "luck of the draw" and although their parts are good quality they are not the best - not even the best that they sell. Once you have a good quality frame and slide, properly fit, and a decent barrel, it is so easy to fit the rest of the parts and do a better than average job at that. I don't think I will ever buy a "built gun" again and I see no reason to use a smith.

For those who do not want to develop the requisite skills, I think it is hard to beat Les Baer guns at his price points. Usually you get your moneys worth with Kimber too. Even the MIM is probably OK now that they are (supposedly) beyond their retooling problems. If a part will fail on the range in a noncatastrophic manner then IMHO super premium parts are not justified. A carry piece is an entirely different matter. One of the reasons I build my own carry guns is so I REALLY know what is going on inside of them.
 
rjk2475:

MIM is "Metal Injection Molding". MIM is a high tech method of making precision parts similar to injection molding of plastic. If done right the parts are very high quality. The problem is that QC and process control are critical to the reliability of the parts produced. In general you cannot tell just by visual inspection whether or not a part is good. MIM has a somewhat checkered history particularly with Kimber parts.
 
1911 tests

I might of missed it...but I am thinking of getting a Springfield mil spec. My question is does it bite the web of your hand when you shot it?
 
Hammer Bite

I now have two SA Milspecs and they do pinch but no worse than any other 1911-A1. Now that I have a spare gun I plan to customize one with a carry bevel and bobbed hammer among other things. That should take care of it.

Kinda like this:
 

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I'm SOLD......Thanks 1911tuner!

Hello 1911tuner:
I'm 58, a Vietnam Vet, and have NEVER owned a 1911 of my own. A couple of days ago, I laid hands on a Springfield GI model and will make this my first-ever 1911.

The idea of a throwback classic really intrugued me, right down to the old-fashioned sights. What an excellent price, considering the nosebleed prices for most 1911's.

Your excellent and detailed wring-out of the GI model has sold me above anything else. I'll probably keep mine box-stock for collector's sake.

What part of North Carolina? I've been throughout the state and my wife and I love it so much we are considering retiring either in the Asheville or Raleigh/Durham area.

Thanks again!
 
Mec
Was your barrel tig welded? I wonder if there is a problem when doing that of over penetration into the chamber and also a high carbon barrel becoming brittle in those areas. The accuracy increase as a result of the welding is quite amazing. It reminds me of the way in which a Kart easy fit barrel is fitted(same kind of principle)


If someone would mind commenting....how does one gauge the correct amount of extractor tension? Is it a trial and error thing to gauge the ejector angle for reliable ejection/extraction. How much barrel hood clearance should there be for a reliable and accurate weapon? How significant is it that the firing pin hit the very center of the primer? How much can it be off before it matters? I fit my barrel to have correct lock up and tried to ignore the firing pin not being in the middle. In order to the firing pin in the middle, I think I would have to get about .070" lock up(it's about .045"-.050" now)


Dhart,
You make a very excellent point about having way more in parts and base gun than a nice custom. I think having work done by a pistolsmith for a carrygun is a wise idea. But to me it is cool to tinker with a gun and improve its function and to understand the 1911 function inside and out. I think it would be cheaper and easier (for me) to purchase one 1911 that had all the good features from the factory(beaver tail, Novaks, proper fit barrel and good trigger) like your Ed Brown Bobtail(btw what does one of those cost these days?) and not have to be as concerned with its reliability, but that may be more of an experience/confidence issue. That looks like an awesome 1911 btw. What does it group like(the bobtail)? For legal reasons I think it is best to carry a gun worked on by a professional pistolsmith even though there may be no difference in the work done by you and the smith. But that's just me :)
 
Stinky... my Ed Brown is a Class A Commander wirth bobtail grip... a model which is no longer being produced. When in production, I believe they werre priced around $2300. I found mine on Gunbroker and bought it from the first owner... I believe I paid about $1500 for it and I'm sure I could get that for it today. It has a remarkably smooth 3.5# trigger and while I can't quantify it's target performance, it is in the ballpark with any of my other Government model 1911's which includes two very accurate Special Combat Government Colts. But I don't think of it nor do I use it as a target/accuracy gun... it's pretty much a pure defense gun to my mind and as such it's accuracy far exceeds what is required.
 
Kart EZ-Fit

Howdy stinky,

You've discovered the difference between a true hard-fit barrel and what amounts to a semi drop-in fit. The Kart is a very good barrel, and depending on several tolerances, can give you a good, centered lockup,
or what you've gotten with yours. Most fall somewhere between the two extremes, and it's all related to different tolerances in different guns.

The Kart has extra meat in the slots between the lugs to let you file to
fit until you get a zero play vertical lockup...but as you said, in order to
center the barrel with the firing pin, you'd have to get the barrel higher in the slide. You can accomplish this in different ways.

One is to weld up the lower lug, and refit the barrel. The second is to
lower the frame rails, which would decrease the distance between the
centerline of the slidestop pin and the underside of the slide...and refit.
If you go this route, be prepared to adjust other things too...like the depth of the disconnector slot in the slide.

A hard-fit barrel has extra meat in the hood area...the lugs...and the lower lug is either oversized or semi-finished. When you adjust the lugs to get
the barrel centered up with the firing pin hole...assuming that the pin hole is located correctly...you can then use a dandy little tool called a lug cutter
that goes in the slidestop pin hole to cut the lower lug with the slide and barrel installed on the frame. Before this invention came along, it had to be done by hand, and it was a failry labor-intensive procedure. Then
the lower lug was finish lapped with a rod of the correct size to get the
lug standing evenly on the slidestop pin.

How important is the pin strike? As far as reliability goes...it's not all that
important. If it's very far off-center, it can affect reliability, but only because
the barrel isn't located correctly...not because of the off-center pin strike itself. The biggest factor is in the accuracy of the gun. An off-center pin strike doesn't provide consistent ignition of the primer, and that leads to
a variation in the flame front of the powder and inconsistent velocities.

So...accuracy is affected...but you probably won't see a practical difference
in an off-the-shelf pistol. Only when everything is brought to match-grade specs will it make a real difference. In a stock gun with your EZ-Fit barrel,
it might amount to an inch or so larger group size at 25 yards...or even less.

I have an early Series 80 Lightweight Commander. The gun has been dead reliable from Jump Street, and as accurate as I can prove without a
sandbag rest. The firing pin strike is off-center by about a third the diameter of the tip of the pin. Sure...I could weld up the lower lug and refit the barrel...but to what end? I can only shoot so well, and the gun isn't
a target pistol, and never will be. I can keep its shots inside the 8-ring
on a B-27 target at 15 yards without trying too hard. For what the gun is
intended for, that's all it needs to do...for me at least.

The hood to slide fit again is related to accuracy. The less the barrel will
rotate on firing, the more accurate it will be...but there's a limit as to how close it can fit and still allow for dirt and fouling before it becomes unreliable. I'm willing to give up an inch or two at 50 yards...where I'll never shoot the gun...for good reliability at the ranges that I WILL likely
have to use it, if the need ever arises.

The fit at the back of the hood to the slide also has a bearing on accuracy,
and it ties in with lug fit in the slide to limit fore and aft motion of the barrel.
Again...Tight wrings all the accuracy potential out of the gun that it will provide, but reliability often suffers when the gun gets dirty.

50-yard National match competitors accept frequent stripping and cleaning of their guns...sometimes as often as every 50 rounds...I don't accept it
because I consider all my pistols as defensive, or potentially defensive guns, so I like for things to be a little looser.

If your goal is to set up an accurate pistol, I'd suggest getting both of
Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manuals. Read them carefully, and study the
drawings. An understanding will come to you after about the third trip through the books. I finally got around to ordering the books, and was
righteously impressed by his knowledge on the subject.

Luck!

Tuner
 
1911Tuner,
Thanks for the great info!! :) I've been considering a Springfield for a while and it looks like a reliable 1911.

Thanks again!
 
Whats slurry?????


What happens if i put in a new barrel bushing? do i have to fit it or is it drop in. The one on my springer seems to have a little play and i'd like tp maybe put in a tighter one. any sugestions?

Also looking for replacement barrel recomendations
 
re:

Howdy WA,

Slurry is a pasty mix of J&B Bore Cleaner and CP Breakfree...or any teflon-based oil. Put a teaspoonful of bore cleaner in a small cup and add oil to it a little at a time, and mix it well. Keep adding oil until you get a paste that will just start to sag off the end of a screwdriver, but not thin enough to drip. Let it stand open overnight, and re-stir it before use.

Coat everything that makes contact and hand-cycle the gun 50 times.
Add a little more to the really tight areas, and cycle it another 100 times.
Add more, and cycle it another 50-100 times. Rinse it out with carburetor cleaner, and allow to air-dry for 20-30 minutes. Oil and reassemble.
Smoooooooooth!:cool:

MGW makes two different bushings...One is a drop-in and one is a hard-fit bushing. The drop-in is cut to max OD specs and minumum ID. They'll drop in most slides with little fitting, if any. If it's a little tight in the slide, use straight J&B for a finishing lap. You'll probably need a bushing wrench
for the job. Don't use a plastic wrench if you borrow one...Use a good
wrench, and be careful of the finish on the end of the slide...The bore cleaner isn't aggressive, but 25 or 30 turns with pressure on the wrench will polish the bluing right off. If it's stainless, it'll polish it nice and shiny.

Brownells has the bushings in blue or stainless. Make sure you get the dtop-in part number, or you'll get one that needs quite a bit of fitting...and
sandpaper is NOT the way to do it.

Why do you want to replace the barrel?
 
MGW???


Whats a bushing wrench and why do i need one, i can take my 1911 apart as is now, what are they for?


Tuner

im looking at a new barrel because the finish is worn off the chamber part of the barrel i have now, dont know why, came like that. im guessing it was worn down a lot so i thought i'd put one in. cant tell if the rifling is worn or not cause i dont know what im lookin for.
 
Bushing Wrench, et al

Howdy WA,

MGW's drop-in bushings are cut to maximum spec diameter...about .699-.700 inch. if your slide is at or near minimum...say about .699-.701, the
bushing will be too tight to turn with your fingers, and you'll have to use the J&B to lap it to fit. When the bore cleaner goes into the slide bore, the bushing will be even tighter, and you'll need the wrench to turn it back and forth to lap it in. If your slide bore is about .703 inch, the bushing will drop
in and give a decent fit with very little slop. I think I've got a spare wrench that you can borrow if you need it to fit the bushing. Once it's fitted, you can turn it with your fingers.

Now for the barrel...

I think that you're gettin' ready to spend money that you don't need to spend unless your gun has 25 or 30 thousand jacketed bullets through it..or a hundred + thousand lead bullets. The finish wear on the hood is because the slide is rubbing it off as it goes past, and won't hurt a thing.
You can get some cold blue and touch it up from time to time if it's an issue.

The rifling in a .45 AP barrel is pretty shallow, so it may look like it's worn when compared to some other calibers...but it's probably okay. I have
several beaters that are approaching 50,000 rounds each, with about a fourth of those being jacketed hardball equivalent reloads, and the rest lead bullets. A few of my range guns are well past the 50k mark, and all still shoot fine. Accuracy has degraded a little...but not to the point that it
makes a practical difference...at least not in my hands. They'll still hit 10-inch discs on the falling plate machine at 50 yards if I do my part in slow-fire practice.

If you decide to rebarrel the gun...I've give ya 50 bucks for your old one.
I'll use it for a softball gun that I'm buildin' up for my lady love. She likes 1911s, but hardball is a bit rough on her hand. It oughta be good for another hundred thousand rounds if I keep the pressures and velocities low. :cool:

Hope this helps...Luck to ya, mah fren!

Tuner
 
MGW

T'anks for da link, KidColt.:cool:

Not to be confused with EGW...Evolution Gun Works...who makes and markets a fine line of stuff in their own right. One of the best little
tricks is their oversized firing pin stop that comes with a square bottom
that lets the smith fine-tune the radius to suit him. I use a lotta those stops. FWIW, the radius on current factory pistols is a modification of the original design, and negates a lot of the mainspring's influence on slide timing and velocity. The original .078 radius delays the slide's initial movement, and thus delays the barrel unlock and linkdown a small amount. This also has the effect of bleeding off a little of the slide's momentum in recoil and allows the use of a lighter recoil spring without
increasing slide to frame impact. Neat!

Salute to MGW and EGW! May you both live long and prosper.
 
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