Big Surprise - Battle Tested Equipment 9mm PCC

peeplwtchr · Jun 25, 2022

Hi All-

I've been on a quest over the last year or two to find the best 9mm PCC. I have an Extar EP9 which is fantastic for the money (Better even than a Skorpion IMO which costs twice as much). The best shooting, most accurate least recoil gun I've found is the MPX, hands down. I haven't bought one because they discontinued the 8 inch barrel, the 4 inch reduces the use case too dramatically for me. I think I've shot every upper tier 9mm PCC there is except B&T. My range friend showed up today with one of these, which I had never heard of, and had no idea he owned: https://bte-usa.com/product/bte-sub9/ .

He had both the 8 inch (With a can), and the 4 inch. I shot them both, and I was stunned. The recoil is far less than anything but MPX, and the trigger is a Velocity trigger, which are as good or better than brands like Timney, Geissle or CNC. They've got polygonal barrels as well, and take Glock mags. They are also balanced better than almost anything I've touched, I was effortlessy shooting the 4 inch with one hand.

Has anyone had experience with them?

chicharrones · Jun 27, 2022

I’ve never seen one in the flesh. Sure is good having shootin’ buddies with a variety of guns to share.

peeplwtchr · Jun 27, 2022

chicharrones said:
I’ve never seen one in the flesh. Sure is good having shootin’ buddies with a variety of guns to share.

Well, that can be a double edged sword too. My range has 70 benches, and I walk it every weekend looking to shoot something I never have. It has ended up in purchases at least a few times. I gotta stop doing that.

someguy2800 · Jun 27, 2022

Is it just a straight blowback? I'm curious what kind of buffer and spring setup they have in there

peeplwtchr · Jun 27, 2022

someguy2800 said:
Is it just a straight blowback? I'm curious what kind of buffer and spring setup they have in there

Yes, straight blowback not piston, which is part of the reason I was so surprised. I actually cut my range sessions short, and went with my friend (He knows the owner of the company) to talk to the owner who makes them. He confirmed that it's the buffer/spring setup. There may be more to it, but that's what he said. The buffer was unlike anything I have seen. I also noticed that all the internals including the bolt are polished. The bolt is as smooth as glass, I'd never seen that before in a PCC.

peeplwtchr · Jun 27, 2022

peeplwtchr said:
Yes, straight blowback not piston, which is part of the reason I was so surprised. I actually cut my range sessions short, and went with my friend (He knows the owner of the company) to talk to the owner who makes them. He confirmed that it's the buffer/spring setup. There may be more to it, but that's what he said. The buffer was unlike anything I have seen. I also noticed that all the internals including the bolt are polished. The bolt is as smooth as glass, I'd never seen that before in a PCC. But then again, these aren't cranked out in mass either, they make them to order. I was told that his guns are currently in the hands of specialized LEO and other Government entities

Madcap_Magician · Jun 27, 2022

peeplwtchr said:
Yes, straight blowback not piston, which is part of the reason I was so surprised. I actually cut my range sessions short, and went with my friend (He knows the owner of the company) to talk to the owner who makes them. He confirmed that it's the buffer/spring setup. There may be more to it, but that's what he said. The buffer was unlike anything I have seen. I also noticed that all the internals including the bolt are polished. The bolt is as smooth as glass, I'd never seen that before in a PCC.

That sure is interesting. I have an 8" Sig MPX SBR, and I went with it for a similar reason - while blowback 9mm PCC recoil is not particularly painful, it's excessive and needless for what it is. Everyone just keeps making blowback PCC guns and pretending they've made something new and innovative when they just took the lazy way out. Is straight blowback 9mm recoil a big deal in a 6-pound SBR or braced pistol? No. But is it necessary to have that amount of recoil out of a 9mm pistol/SBR that size? Also no. So the only ones that have really interested me are the ones where someone is doing something actually innovative with a 9mm SBR, which to date was really just Sig's gas system, CMMG's radial-delay blowback, and I guess now this company, which sure looks interesting.

They all say they have the "BTE Recoil Management System," but there's nothing about how that works. And, I mean... I'm curious!

peeplwtchr · Jun 27, 2022

Madcap_Magician said:
That sure is interesting. I have an 8" Sig MPX SBR, and I went with it for a similar reason - while blowback 9mm PCC recoil is not particularly painful, it's excessive and needless for what it is. Everyone just keeps making blowback PCC guns and pretending they've made something new and innovative when they just took the lazy way out. Is straight blowback 9mm recoil a big deal in a 6-pound SBR or braced pistol? No. But is it necessary to have that amount of recoil out of a 9mm pistol/SBR that size? Also no. So the only ones that have really interested me are the ones where someone is doing something actually innovative with a 9mm SBR, which to date was really just Sig's gas system, CMMG's radial-delay blowback, and I guess now this company, which sure looks interesting.

They all say they have the "BTE Recoil Management System," but there's nothing about how that works. And, I mean... I'm curious!

Agreed on all counts, which is why I've been looking for so long. I actually asked him where he learned to make such a smooth shooting gun, and effective recoil reduction, he said "The 20 years he lived in his shop tinkering with things".

peeplwtchr · Jul 2, 2022

Hi All-

Got an update. I borrowed one of these with very few rounds through it today from a friend of my friend. I put about 450 rounds (Including 4 31 round mag dumps in 5 min.) through it, not a hiccup. It was about 105 degrees outside at the time, the gun got VERY hot. I fed if about 10 different headstamps, including Wolf steel. One thing I did notice is that although the recoil was noticeably less than most 9mm PCCs I have shot (No 8 inch can like the one I shot before), the lack of muzzle flip was the most prominent feature of the two. This has a Gamma VG6 brake on it, so that's to be expected. MPX soft? Not quite, but what is? Another thing I noticed, is that after all those rounds of dirty powder (Unique reloads, 4X fired), and known dirty factory rounds (Wolf, R.P.), is that the bolt was almost still clean compared to PCCs and ARs, and the firing pin looked unfired. I guess that's a result of design and tight machining. BTW the upper and lower have gotta only be about one or two human hairs apart in fit. They almost feel like one piece. Anyway, they aren't exactly cheap, but they are the most well designed, machined PCCs I've ever seen. At 25 yds using Geco factory ammo, I was getting 2-3 bullets through a hole about 1/4-1/2 moa, with a 2 moa Holosun dot. It opened up to 2 moa at 50 yds, but with the right load I'm pretty sure I can tighten that up. My friend has shot well at 200 yds with the right hold over.

My verdict: SURVEY SAYS I MUST BUY.

I attached lots of pics from cleaning, for the inquiring minds here. BTW - Check out the custom take down pins. They are so tight, it's a great touch. Another great touch is the flared mag well. Also, this has an M16 extractor on it, because it's good for compatibility with other LEO guns or something (If I heard it right), not sure what that means.

Forgot to mention, this is the 8 inch barrel.

JShirley · Jul 2, 2022

peeplwtchr said:
Hi All-

I've been on a quest over the last year or two to find the best 9mm PCC. I have an Extar EP9 .... My range friend showed up today with one of these, which I had never heard of, and had no idea he owned: https://bte-usa.com/product/bte-sub9/ .

He had both the 8 inch (With a can), and the 4 inch. I shot them both, and I was stunned. The recoil is far less than anything but MPX, and the trigger is a Velocity trigger, which are as good or better than brands like Timney, Geissle or CNC. They've got polygonal barrels as well, and take Glock mags. They are also balanced better than almost anything I've touched, I was effortlessy shooting the 4 inch with one hand.

Has anyone had experience with them?

So... do you believe these are worth 2.5x the Extar?

John

peeplwtchr · Jul 2, 2022

JShirley said:
So... do you believe these are worth 2.5x the Extar?

John

I shot them both today, and was comparing them. The answer is yes.
1. Extars get very dirty throughout the whole gun, after 100 rds.
2. 8 inch barrel vs. Extar 6 inch barrel offers a bit more velocity (And more burned powder), and the BTE barrel is more accurate.
3. Extars uppers and lowers are all polymer.
4. Current Extar triggers have springs that make the trigger feel like about 20 pounds. The Gen 1 triggers were far better. I just upgraded to the new steel fire control group, I chucked the spring and used the JT spring kit which I had in my Gen 1.
5. Not sure what brace the Gen 2 Extars now use, but my Gen 1 brace slipped alot. I had to use electrical tape to keep it from slipping. The BTE has a 6 position locking brace.

I could go on, but the main idea here is that the BTE is just in a different class. I LOVE my Extar, and will be keeping it. I guess my recommendation would be that if you aren't looking to spend this kind of money on a PCC, Extar all day long, even compared to Skorpions, Stribogs and whatever else you want to throw in. Watch Honest Outlaw's Extar review on youtube, he nails it. One thing I can say is that if you have a PCC, use a Gamma VG6 muzzle brake. It turned my $300 (At the time) Extar into a $700 gun.

To be honest, this purchase decision was a bit hard for me to make, but after I spent 4 hours shooting this thing, taking it apart and trying to find a reason to say it's not worth the money, I couldn't. And I'm generally conservative in my spending on anything, unless the perceived quality justifies the spending deviation. I will sleep fine on this decision.

JShirley · Jul 2, 2022

Thank you.

peeplwtchr · Jul 2, 2022

JShirley said:
Thank you.

But remember these are made to order guns. You can call and speak to the owner to order. He can customize it to be whatever you want, so price can vary based on what you want. I believe that's the company's model because of the various orders they get from special LEO/ Military entity use cases (Based on what I have heard). This isn't mass production by any means.

Big Surprise - Battle Tested Equipment 9mm PCC

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