Freezing powder

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Akula69

Akula69

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The Armpit of this Country
Story:

Our 20 CF Frigidaire upright frost free freezer is dying slowly. It is starting to have varying temps from 0 to 20 F (depending on the defrost cycle). As most of the companies here in the 'pit are charging 40-70 bucks for a haul away (and the dump will NOT accept Freon-charged appliances anymore), I'm thinking about moving it to the reloading shed and using it for powder storage. Now - it will dehumidify...when it's plugged in, but it can also freeze the powder!

Question:
I know I can plan ahead and take the powder out to thaw - but would freezing it (maybe even long-term) hurt the goods?
 
Akula69 said:
Story:

Our 20 CF Frigidaire upright frost free freezer is dying slowly. It is starting to have varying temps from 0 to 20 F (depending on the defrost cycle). As most of the companies here in the 'pit are charging 40-70 bucks for a haul away (and the dump will NOT accept Freon-charged appliances anymore), I'm thinking about moving it to the reloading shed and using it for powder storage. Now - it will dehumidify...when it's plugged in, but it can also freeze the powder!

Question:
I know I can plan ahead and take the powder out to thaw - but would freezing it (maybe even long-term) hurt the goods?
Click to expand...
Freezing would invite condensation during the thaw process. My opinion only.
 
Akula69 said:
Story:

Our 20 CF Frigidaire upright frost free freezer is dying slowly. It is starting to have varying temps from 0 to 20 F (depending on the defrost cycle). As most of the companies here in the 'pit are charging 40-70 bucks for a haul away (and the dump will NOT accept Freon-charged appliances anymore), I'm thinking about moving it to the reloading shed and using it for powder storage. Now - it will dehumidify...when it's plugged in, but it can also freeze the powder!

Question:
I know I can plan ahead and take the powder out to thaw - but would freezing it (maybe even long-term) hurt the goods?
Click to expand...
My gosh man! There are remains of former members you should exhume & look at before posting something like this. Learn from their mistakes. Protect yourself. Please!
 
I generally have anywhere from 8 to 32 pounds of shotgun powder in my unheated garage in MN. It is presently 5F and often drops to -10 or colder in winter. I've never noticed a problem.

I think, however, you should consider the cost/benefit of using the electricity to feed that dinosaur, rather than just using it as a storage locker with a low-amp gun safe dehumidifier or a natural passive hygroscopic agent such as a bag of charcoal or kiln dried lumber scraps for your campfire. You'll be shooting $100/lb powder when you figure in the electric bill long term!
 
Powder only needs to be cool & dry anything else is over kill.

Check with your electric company many will haul away old still running appliances like refrigerators or freezers & give you money to boot.
My electric company gives $50 for old running appliances so they don't get plugged in & waste electric.
 
Akula69 said:
As most of the companies here in the 'pit are charging 40-70 bucks for a haul away (and the dump will NOT accept Freon-charged appliances anymore), I'm thinking about moving it to the reloading shed and using it for powder storage.
Click to expand...

Most municipalities have an annual/bi-annual appliance pickup. Even so, 40-70 bucks to get rid of it now is probably cheap compared to what it will cost you in the future. Using it for powder storage seems one of the most impractical options I have heard of. Make a smoker out of it maybe, but the cost of running an old inefficient appliance is going to cost you more than $40 in the long run.
 
Akula69 said:
Freezing powder ... would freezing it (maybe even long-term) hurt the goods?
Click to expand...
Neither Hodgdon/IMR/Accurate/Ramshot, Alliant nor Vihtavuori/SAAMI mention freezing smokeless powder for storage

From Hodgdon - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/gunpowder-stability

Smokeless Propellant

The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.

To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.

The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants.

Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building.​


From Alliant - https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2018_Alliant_Powder.pdf

HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION - Although modern smokeless powders contain stabilizers and are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.

Deteriorating smokeless powders produce an acidic odor and may produce a reddish brown fume. (Don’t confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.) Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor.

Dispose of deteriorating smokeless powders immediately. Check to make certain that powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure produces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because of the heat generated by the reaction, to cause spontaneous combustion.
​

And from Vihtavuori, which is reprint of SAAMI - https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/storage-of-powders/

WHAT IS THE ESTIMATED SHELF LIFE OF GUN POWDER?

The estimated shelf-life of Vihtavuori gun powders is a minimum of 10 years, if stored and sealed in its original containers at a temperature of circa 20°C/ 68°F and a relative humidity of 55-65 %.

HOW DO I STORE RELOADING POWDERS?

STORE GUNPOWDER IN A COOL, DRY PLACE. Be sure the reloading powder storage area selected is free from any possible sources of excess heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. Do not store smokeless powder where it will be exposed to sunrays.

... DO NOT KEEP OLD OR SALVAGED POWDERS. Check old powders for deterioration regularly. Destroy deteriorated powders immediately.

... The above information has been provided with permission from SAAMI: SPORTING ARMS AND AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS’ INSTITUTE
​

And SAAMI publication on storage of smokeless powder - https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder-11-8-2022.pdf
 
Last edited:
LiveLife said:
Many use non-working freezers as insulated humidity controlled storage cabinets with powered dehumidifiers or rechargeable/disposable desiccants used for gun safes.
Click to expand...

I should have added, my shotgun powder as well as a quantity of surplus military ammo is stored thussly. I keep it in an out of service chest freezer with 1-2 bags of charcoal as a dessicant. Occasionally we get a deal on a half of beef and the gun stuff is temporarily relegated to open storage. The charcoal is regularly rotated to grill service, keeping at least one fresh bag at all times.
 
Jes a couple thoughts;
#1 Why freeze powder?
#2 Why not just not plug in the freezer?
 
The average High School physics grade represented so far is not so encouraging

Powder doesn't freeze at 32F. Water freezes at 32F, and the only water present in your powder is dissolved in the air as humidity. Storing new containers in the freezer might precipitate that dissolved water, but it's too little to matter. You could, by cyclically freezing, opening in humid air, and refreezing, stepwise add water into the contained air until it matters. . . but you'd need very humid air to do it.

All that said, your money is probably better spent storing powder in the freezer, unplugged, or in your bedroom closet. You can uninstall the refrigerant gas by removing the entire compressor system with wire cutters and disposing into a trash can, and then taking the carcasse to the dump free of its evil freon.
 
People pay big bucks for old refrigerant and having it pulled into a storage container from an old system is the only way to come up with any of it these days. Call a local refrigeration service company before you open the system to see if it makes any sense to try to recover it. It's probably more cost effective to salvage refrigerant from a community household appliance drop-off event though.
 
I dont know why you would hassle with freezing you powder, seems ridiculous. That said, think of all the Russians in Siberia or watch Life Below zero, none of their ammo seems to care if its 50 below.
 
I'm not sure why some folks think this is a hugely dangerous idea. I have ammo stored in an unheated shed that can frequently see -30 deg f. temps in the winter, and is *always* below 32 deg during the winter. There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing powder in subzero temps.

That said, I would agree with others that it wouldn't be worth the money to leave that freezer plugged in all the time just for powder storage.
 
Some localities want you to store powder in a cabinet or box with a wooden top, that's what a fireman told me
 
I know what the manufacturers and authorities say, but I am still using Hercules and DuPont IMR powders (that ought to give you a clue how hold they are) that was made in the 1980's and 1990's and was stored in un-heated/un-air-conditioned garages in North Texas and North Arkansas and all of it (with the exception of Green Dot) performs nearly as well as when it was new.

Powder is NOT immortal, but certain powders may last longer than the 10- to 20-years the manufacturers are comfortable having you store them.

Exceed manufacturer recommendations at your own risk. In the past I did. But since 2018 my old powders have been stored in wooden boxes in an underground structure well away from my house.
 
rdnktrkr said:
Some localities want you to store powder in a cabinet or box with a wooden top, that's what a fireman told me
Click to expand...

That is what the National Fire Code suggests. They are recommendations, not law.

Still, some localities mandate it. Check if yours happens to be one.

Whether mandated or not, it is common sense to keep powder separated in small lots in containers (each made out of one-inch nominal dimension timber) that will slow (or even stop) the propagation of a spontaneous or accidental ignition. This is not a case of government intrusion or government over-reach, it is a case of an independent agency saying, "If you don't want your house to burn down, do this."
 
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