Legally, what is the difference between a straw buyer and a person who gifts a gun?

If I understand correctly, a straw purchase is when you buy a gun for someone who cannot legally purchase one themselves. If you have no reason to believe that there is anything that would prevent someone from buying a gun, then the buy is probably O.K. Buying a gun for someone who cannot own one for any reason (they commited a felony, etc) would be a straw purchase. I believe its also a straw purchase if someone else pays you to buy the gun or gives you the money to buy it.

I'm not sure I can anwser your question completly but I think the rub comes in when you consider the buyer's intent. If he buys to own then decides to gift =okay. If he buys with intent to give = not okay. A mighty fine line that's hard to enforce or prove if you ask me.

One's legal, one's not.

Seriously, it's a matter of intent.

David

The key question is on the 4473.

Are you the actual buyer of this firearm.

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If it is your money and your decision to buy it there is no straw purchase.

If you decide to give the gun away as a present to a non-restriced person
after the transaction that is your business.

A straw purchase is when Joe Crackhead with a criminal record gives money to a straw purchaser for the sole purpose of avoiding the NICS check and any other laws and regulations restricting him from a legal gun transaction.

My understanding, too, is that it's an "intent" and "facts and circumstances" kind of thing. Which means that there will necessarily be some gray areas. As a general rule, I think it's perfectly acceptable to buy a gun as a gift for another person, unless there is some coertion or you have some reason to believe that person cannot legally possess a gun or might use it in a crime.

I believe its also a straw purchase if someone else pays you to buy the gun or gives you the money to buy it.

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That's the most definable criteria. If someone else gives you the money and you buy it for them it is illegal, even if the person you are buying for can legally posess a handgun.

It's very gray if you buy a gun and then sell it to someone right after you buy it. I asked that question in the context of buying and then selling to an 18-21 year old and no one could give me a straight answer.

Short answer, the government sucks.

Don't ask me

My youngest kid is 18 now. I was thinking of buying him pistol as a gift for Christmas. That's something he can't legally do for himself over the counter. He can buy used (private sale), but not new. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What if you wanted to buy a handgun for someone under 21 as a gift? For instance if my mother walked into the gun shop and bought me a handgun (I'm 20) and then gave it to me, I wonder if that is legal or not? Wonder if it would still count as a gift if I were to be with her to pick it out since she knows squat about guns....it be nice if the goverment didn't overcomplicate matters.

Whole idea behind "straw" purchase was getting guns for people that can't have them legally. Bypass the NICS

IIRC, you can personally transfer a personal firearm to someone who can legally own one (in Indiana). If you knowingly sell to someone that can't legally own (a minor or felon), then you're guilty of a felony.

In some states, a person between 18-21 can own a handgun but can't buy one. I think you could legally be given one as a gift, at least by a family member. There are different laws (Again in Indiana) for familty members.

I would also imagine that state transfer laws would color the distinction.

For example, the NJ statute has no provision for transfer of arms among family members, even spouses.

PA, OTOH, does have provisions for transfers of handguns between spouses and parents/children. Some states decline to regulate transfers between eligible people entirely, and others, like PA decline to regulate transfers of certain categories, such as longarms.

Lupinus said:

What if you wanted to buy a handgun for someone under 21 as a gift? For instance if my mother walked into the gun shop and bought me a handgun (I'm 20) and then gave it to me, I wonder if that is legal or not? Wonder if it would still count as a gift if I were to be with her to pick it out since she knows squat about guns....it be nice if the goverment didn't overcomplicate matters.

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I think in FL, you can own a handgun at 18 but cannot buy it yourself, carry it, or buy ammo for it (how stupid is that?). Check the state's website for confirmation.

Greg

I believe its also a straw purchase if someone else pays you to buy the gun or gives you the money to buy it.

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If a kid saves up and uses his money to purchase a firearm, but Dad has to fill out and sign the paperwork, I suppose that's technically a "straw purchase" . . . but things like this happen all the time.

I've never heard of someone being prosecuted for a "straw purchase" unless 1) the firearm is handed over to someone who's not allowed to have guns, such as a convicted felon; 2) the ultimate purchaser commits some crime; or 3) the BATmen have put together a phony "sting" where Agent Schmuckatelli buys a gun, walks outside, gives it to someone else, and then they both go in and arrest the dealer.

I think within the family, it depends on if the kid can legally possess the firearm or not. If not, then the firearm shoudl remain in the ownership of the parent and then the kid can use it (legally of course). Once the kid can legally possess the firearm personally, then the ownership can be official.

Personally, the only thing my Dad ever gave me was a BB gun. All the guns growing up belonged to my Dad except for one .22 rifle that my older brother bought with his own money. I didn't buy any guns of my own until after I got out of college in my mid-20's. (I am a long way from that now.)

Parent buying pistol for < 21 LEO

I read most new police officers have to have Mom buy their weapon for them. Isn't that nuts?

BigFatKen said:

I read most new police officers have to have Mom buy their weapon for them. Isn't that nuts?

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Scary/moronic comes to mind more.

Well, you need to be 21 years old to be a LEO in Ohio, so I don't know why that would ever be the case here. I suspect that is also true in most states.

Mike

I went to my local gunshop yesterday. It was filled with people buying firearms as Christmas presents. No problem at all. In fact, my wife bought a Kimber for me several years ago for Christmas. However, I had to find the buyer on the Internet, give her explicit instructions on payment and transfer through a local FFL, etc. Now, I just buy a gun and let her know later that she gave me a gun for Christmas, birthday, Groundhog Day, Arbor Day........

redneck2 said:

Whole idea behind "straw" purchase was getting guns for people that can't have them legally. Bypass the NICS

IIRC, you can personally transfer a personal firearm to someone who can legally own one (in Indiana). If you knowingly sell to someone that can't legally own (a minor or felon), then you're guilty of a felony.

In some states, a person between 18-21 can own a handgun but can't buy one. I think you could legally be given one as a gift, at least by a family member. There are different laws (Again in Indiana) for familty members.

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It's not quite that simple. If you purchase a handgun with the intent to immediately resell it to someone else, you may violate the law, even if that someone else could legally have purchased it himself. In other words, if you bought it for the express purpose of transferring it to another known individual, you have arguably violated the law. It doesn't matter whether the money changes hands before or after you make the purchase, or whether the other individual is legally able to purchase or possess the firearm.

For example, lt's assume we have two buddies named Bob and Dave. Both are upstanding citizens, 30 years old, no criminal records and otherwise able to purchase and possess firearms. Dave, however, believes that gun confiscation may come someday and doesn't want any paperwork that would show what, if any, firearms he has. Dave also wants a new Glock. So Dave says to Bob, "buy that Glock and sell it to me." Bob agrees to, and purchases the Glock for $550. Bob fills out the 4473, undergoes the NICS and gets printed. He walks out with the new Glock, drives to Dave's house, and gives him the gun. Dave gives Bob $550. They crack open some Buds and sit down to watch the game.

Illegal straw purchase? I think so.

One is legal and the other not

If you want a new as in "NEW" handgun it will have a paper trail. No legal way around it intentionaly. As soon as my significant other gifts me with a new arm I will have one paperfree to me but not to my house. My dad could give me one also but that would be FTF and probably illegal as far as interstate commerce goes. If I ask my rich nieghbor to give me a gun and he does!! Well that usualy doesn't happen. If I am to busy to wait out the waiting period imposed on me for another "delayed" nics responce I will just have to give up that purchase and find another one closer to home.

Father Knows Best said:

For example, lt's assume we have two buddies named Bob and Dave. Both are upstanding citizens, 30 years old, no criminal records and otherwise able to purchase and possess firearms. Dave, however, believes that gun confiscation may come someday and doesn't want any paperwork that would show what, if any, firearms he has. Dave also wants a new Glock. So Dave says to Bob, "buy that Glock and sell it to me." Bob agrees to, and purchases the Glock for $550. Bob fills out the 4473, undergoes the NICS and gets printed. He walks out with the new Glock, drives to Dave's house, and gives him the gun. Dave gives Bob $550. They crack open some Buds and sit down to watch the game.

Illegal straw purchase? I think so.

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But I hate Glocks....... So then I'd have to go re-sell it to get either a 1911 or a nice shotgun.

Scout26 (AKA Dave)

Under federal law it is illegal to buy a gun to sell to someone else, or with someone else's money, even if the person can legally own the gun. You may change your mind later and sell the gun if you choose.

Under federal law, it is perfectly legal to buy a gun with the intention of giving it as a gift to someone else.

Okay, how about this situation?

A non-FFL-holding individual has a handgun for sale. He receives a message from potential buyer who says, "I can't pick up the gun myself, but my cousin can get it from you, and then he's going to send it to me. Send him your contact information, and you two can work out a deal."

Should seller:

Complete the transaction?

Ignore the message?

Politely decline?

Rudely decline?

Double the asking price?

It seems to me that seller is at risk of being an accessory to a criminal conspiracy in illegal handgun trafficking, knowingly participating in a straw purchase that may include illegal shipment of a handgun, potentially across state lines.

Or is that an overly paranoid attitude?

The seller should decline.

If he wants to stay in business that is.