Remeber how we joked the UK would want to ban pointy knives?...

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epijunkie67

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http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/campaigns/2006/01jan/060116sam.shtml

The Express & Echo in Exeter is calling for samurai swords to be banned, after a local man was stabbed to death in the street.

The newspaper wants the government to stop the sale of the swords, with an exemption for licensed groups.

It is not currently illegal to buy a sword, only to carry it in public.

And a day after Sidmouth man Bradley Moran admitted killing 33-year-old Matthew Stiling by stabbing him through the heart with the 18-inch blade of a samurai sword, an Echo reporter discovered how easy it is to buy one unchecked from an Exeter shop.

Journalist David Edbrooke paid £120 for a sword with a 2.5ft sharpened blade, and said it was "as easy as buying a lotto ticket".

Echo editor Marc Astley said: "It is incredible that our reporter was able to buy such a terrifying weapon, no questions asked. I was shocked at just how sharp and heavy the blade is.

"Although they are supposed to be for ceremonial use the sword we purchased was lethal. There is no excuse for this sort of thing to be sold to anyone but licensed organisations and we will be pursuing our campaign with vigour."

David said: "Buying the sword was almost as easy as purchasing a pack of sweets.

"I simply went into the shop, saw two sheathed samurai swords hanging above the counter and asked to look at one.

"After giving it a quick inspection, I offered my credit card up and that was that.

"The only other requirement asked of me was to write my name and address in a little black book that the shop kept.

"I found it staggering that I was able to go into a city centre shop and in a matter of minutes walk out with such a dangerous, offensive weapon - I've spent more time in my local newsagents picking numbers for the lottery or buying a bag of marshmallows than I did buying the sword."

The campaign has been backed by Devon & Cornwall Police and Exeter Police as well as Matthew's family.

Marc added: "There will be some who argue that household knives could be as deadly as samurai swords.

"Try telling that to the family of Matthew Stiling.

"When his killer became aggrieved he didn't reach for the kitchen drawer, he armed himself with a weapon worth hundreds of pounds and murdered an innocent young man.

"The Echo accepts that some martial arts groups use such weapons innocently.

"We hope they will accept that calling for their sale to be restricted is sensible and reasonable.

"We will pursue this campaign to the bitter end and will be calling on Echo readers to play their part too.

"If that means that together we help prevent a single death or injury, it will have been worth it."
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Not a government thing yet but this is where these kinds of things start. I love the last part of the article.
We hope they will accept that calling for their sale to be restricted is sensible and reasonable.
If that means that together we help prevent a single death or injury, it will have been worth it
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I thought banning guns was supposed to do all that?
 
able to buy such a terrifying weapon
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Wow if a sword is terrifying I wonder what they think about my select-fire FNC. It must be horrificly mortifyingly petrifyingly shat-my-pants scary for those serfs.

It's getting to be even worse than feudal Europe. At least peasants could keep kitchen knives, hatchets, and scythes back then.
 
Last I heard, they were about to ban gun replicas, too.

I'm expecting them to ban imaginary mental pictures of guns, next.

Ironic that in a place where the downtown foot police carry MP5s (and jumpily execute people in subways) that guns are too dangerous for the law-abiding citizen to have...
 
Manedwolf said:
Last I heard, they were about to ban gun replicas, too.

I'm expecting them to ban imaginary mental pictures of guns, next.

Ironic that in a place where the downtown foot police carry MP5s (and jumpily execute people in subways) that guns are too dangerous for the law-abiding citizen to have...
Click to expand...

So many things wrong about that statement.....
 
Doctors seek kitchen knife ban

LONG, pointed kitchen knives should be banned as part of a concerted effort to reduce the terrible injuries and deaths caused by stabbing attacks, doctors warned today.

Accident and emergency medics claim the knives serve no useful purpose in the kitchen but are proving deadly on the streets of Britain, with the doctors claiming the knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
 
But so far it's just an opinion in a news article, if we understand correctly.

And I wish I hadn't read all that about the marshmallows, sweets, etc. because I'm in danger of straying from my diet! :D
 
The Express & Echo in Exeter is calling for samurai swords to be banned, after a local man was stabbed to death in the street.

The newspaper wants the government to stop the sale of the swords, with an exemption for licensed groups.

It is not currently illegal to buy a sword, only to carry it in public.
Click to expand...

Bold- It was already illegal. He was stabbed in a public place, thus the sword had to have been carried into a public place.

Italic- As soon as one person does something stupid with an item, the item must be banned, so that no one can have the items at all.


"I found it staggering that I was able to go into a city centre shop and in a matter of minutes walk out with such a dangerous, offensive weapon - I've spent more time in my local newsagents picking numbers for the lottery or buying a bag of marshmallows than I did buying the sword."

ROFLLMFAO

Wonder what he would think of a gun shop in america!!!!
 
An opinion in a news article, followed by a call to action by the paper's editorial board supported by local agents of the state.

The campaign has been backed by Devon & Cornwall Police and Exeter Police as well as Matthew's family.
Click to expand...

Ag,

You know I respect you and I no longer buy into the crud we have commonly slung about crime statistics and "serf" comments, but you have to admit this knee-jerk "ban scary things" response to crime on the part of the media and some local governments over there is getting ridiculous.

Are we just not getting the contrary and sensible responses from your lawmakers, editors and citizenry that perhaps the "things" are not the problem reported to us over here? I find it hard to believe there aren't voices crying in the wilderness that the traditional rights of Britons are being savaged in this mindless quest for the illusion of safety.

But, as you know, I am biased. :D

Keep yourself safe out there on the job.
 
carebear said:
An opinion in a news article, followed by a call to action by the paper's editorial board supported by local agents of the state.



Ag,

You know I respect you and I no longer buy into the crud we have commonly slung about crime statistics and "serf" comments, but you have to admit this knee-jerk "ban scary things" response to crime on the part of the media and some local governments over there is getting ridiculous.

Are we just not getting the contrary and sensible responses from your lawmakers, editors and citizenry that perhaps the "things" are not the problem reported to us over here? I find it hard to believe there aren't voices crying in the wilderness that the traditional rights of Britons are being savaged in this mindless quest for the illusion of safety.

But, as you know, I am biased. :D

Keep yourself safe out there on the job.
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Yes, but the point about this article is just that its the media, a murdered mans family and bandwagon-jumpers who are backing this "campaign" (a campaign which doesnt appear to have left Exeter by the way). I put rather less faith in its likelyhood of becoming law than the following article, which was widely reported in the Sunday press (and which is surely only waiting for a politician to pick up the ball and run with it):

His fiancée's father, Rod Eastman, launched an attack on Britain's 'lawless society', saying that ordinary people should arm themselves against attack from muggers.

'If you value your life and want to protect yourself on the streets the only way is to carry a weapon,' he added.
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1686974,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1986267,00.html

I appreciate this is in no way aimed at you, but its funny how you are the exception to the rest of the posters in this thread who have found one article, on a foriegn local paper that it is very likely noone has ever heard of before, and extrapolate government policy from it.
 
The Sunday Times January 15, 2006

Death of a gentle man
Kwasi Kwarteng



I liked Tom Ap Rhys Pryce and I enjoyed his company. We studied the same subject, classics, in the same year, 1993, at the same Cambridge college, Trinity. For two years I used to see him nearly every day. He had the kind of intellectual curiosity academics respect.
Tom wasn’t the life and soul of the party, but he was a decent, modest and highly intelligent student who got on with with life in his own laid-back and charming way.



Tom got the first class degree his talents and commitment deserved. He stayed on for an extra year to study for a masters and then converted to law. He ended up in a high-flying job at Linklaters, the top firm. I lost touch with him after we graduated but Tom and I had one of those university friendships lots of people enjoy. Even though you may lose touch for a while, there is always the assumption that a quiet drink after some years will cover the lost ground.

Our paths crossed again last year when I received an e-mail from him out of the blue. I had contested Brent East at the general election in 2005 as the Conservative candidate and Tom had picked up my election literature. Bathurst Gardens, where he was attacked and killed, is on the border of the Brent South and Brent East constituencies and Tom, after learning of my being a candidate, had written an encouraging e-mail. He suggested that we meet up for a drink. I was very pleased.

The drink was never arranged. I travelled abroad while he was involved in his wedding preparations. I always assumed that we would eventually meet up and discuss old times. His brutal murder on Thursday night destroyed any chance of this.

I still can’t believe that a man who was so gentle, mild and considerate could meet such a violent end.

The shocking thing about Tom’s murder is the savagery of the attack. In this mindless violence I detected something strange. Yes, there were muggings 10 years ago, and people were sometimes killed. In those days, however, my suspicion is that killings would happen in a struggle which ended up in knives being drawn, a few panic-stricken and desperate thrusts and then, tragically, death.

But Tom’s attackers, it seems, already had his possessions. What followed was a completely pointless, insane spasm of violence, in which the muggers stabbed his head, body and hands. The brutality of the attack had nothing to do with their initial crime. I don’t know what drove these young men to attack Tom. I will never understand the fury and hatred that must have driven them to it. What I do know is that a decade after the phrase “tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime” was coined, we are still no nearer to solving the causes of such violent crimes as this.

During the last election, crime, especially violent crime, was an issue in Brent. There was a feeling that the situation had got out of hand. Violent crime, particularly gun crime, had increased by more than a fifth in the past year. People felt helpless.

It became clear to me that the fear of crime was in many ways more important than the crimes themselves. Violent crimes, particularly, created an impression that lawlessness was rampant, regardless of the actual number of crimes committed. This means that the nature of the crime is often more important in creating panic and unease in the community than the mere statistics.

Perception, in this case, is reality. Tom’s murder confirms this. The peculiar violence and savagery of his murder, coming so soon after the conviction of John Monckton’s killers, who stabbed him in his own Chelsea house, will give people the impression that we live in an age more brutal and violent than most. It will make more people more worried.

To combat this fear, we have to restore confidence in the justice system. There must be a strong feeling that the killers will not only be caught but will serve appropriate sentences. My worry is that after many decades of liberal sentencing, the sentences passed in no way reflect the horrible nature of the crimes committed. Many people now feel that the punishment, to adapt an old saying, no longer fits the crime.

Sophisticated liberals will say that we should never appease the mob baying for blood and retribution. Clever barrister friends of mine are always defending liberal judges on the grounds that they have more wisdom than the rest of us. Yet if people on the street feel unsafe, and feel sentences are not tough enough, then surely urgent attention should be paid to the views of the people whom the law is meant to protect.

The law was made for the people, not for lawyers or judges. If people no longer feel safe, then surely sentences should reflect that. Tom would perhaps have remembered the Latin tag, “salus populi suprema lex” — “the safety of the people is the supreme law”.

If that is the case and if people now feel more unsafe than ever, then much tougher sentences and more prisons would be the first steps in making people feel safer. It would at least restore more confidence in our justice system.


Kwasi Kwarteng is chairman of the Bow Group
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Found this previous article. I assume from context that Mr. Kwarteng lost the election but his responses, as at least an aspiring politician, are revealing. He correctly points out the difference between actual crime and the public perception of crime. He correctly points out that one job of government is to address not only reality but public perception. But what he never does is address making the public feel safer by allowing them to defend themselves. His comments revolve around regaining public trust in the "system" by regaining some sanity in the certainty of conviction and the severity of punishment. Which is good.

Unfortunately, no mention is made of allowing or encouraging folks to both defend themselves and to allowing them effective means (weapons) to do so. It is revealing because it isn't just "his opinion". As a competent politician (aspiring) we can assume he takes positions that reflect his understanding of what the people want to hear. Either the politicians are in a serious disconnect or "the people", in an electionally significant percentage, haven't decided they need to be armed.

I guess my point is, are there actually politicians who will run with this, minus a real public outcry? This guy apparently won't, and he considered himself a friend.
 
agricola
I appreciate this is in no way aimed at you, but its funny how you are the exception to the rest of the posters in this thread who have found one article, on a foriegn local paper that it is very likely noone has ever heard of before, and extrapolate government policy from it.
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I hope you don't think I was implying this was going to happen any time soon by posting it here. I just found it amazing that peole could have such an outrageous attitude. A few isolated people are always going to advocate extreamist measures but this goes beyond a few isolated people. Now a nationwide thing, no. But still, more than a small handful.

Every time someplace bans weapons at the city, state, or country level, they expect the crime rate to go down. And of course it doesn't. They just use different weapons. So they want to ban more and more things without ever actually acknowledging that the problem isn't the weapons, it's the people who use them.
 
Heaven help them, they're going to need it. :barf:

Based upon the progression of events up to this point they may as well create individual, very carefully climate controlled and biohazard proof, padded rooms for each individual person in the UK such that none of them ever gets sick, injured or even looked at wrong.

In the darkest recesses of my mind I fear that the UK will be very ripe for invasion and enslavement in another 35-40 years or so. Just imagine how things would have gone back in WWII if they'd had the same mentality back then that they have today.

I'm also of the opinion that neither the United Nations, nor the US is responsible for preserving their sovereignty and with the way the world is lashing out at the ole USA these days (which will only get worse), I'm beginning to think that we will be either unable or unwilling to protect them when that time comes. I'm glad I won't be around to see it!
 
agricola said:
I appreciate this is in no way aimed at you, but its funny how you are the exception to the rest of the posters in this thread who have found one article, on a foriegn local paper that it is very likely noone has ever heard of before, and extrapolate government policy from it.
Click to expand...

Now wait a minute, pardner. What "rest of the posters?"
I was the one who brought that up first.

But so far it's just an opinion in a news article, if we understand correctly.
Click to expand...

:D
 
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I'm sorry to say that Victoria, Australia is already ahead of the UK. Nowdays you need a licence to purchase and own any type of sword, and you can't own a sharp one either. I seem to recall it was mainly due to a fella getting his hand chopped off a few years ago, the media made a massive fuss over it, and there you go. Bye bye to swords.

Not to mention that the coppers haven't got a clue what form you need to apply for the licence, and that the licenceing service is known for not sending people the form either, when they ask for one. I know people who've been waiting over a year to fill it out, yet they still havn't recived one, even with mulitple calls to find out what's taken so long.
 
It is incredible that our reporter was able to buy such a terrifying weapon, no questions asked. I was shocked at just how sharp and heavy the blade is.
"Although they are supposed to be for ceremonial use the sword we purchased was lethal. There is no excuse for this sort of thing to be sold to anyone but licensed organisations and we will be pursuing our campaign with vigour.
Click to expand...

Damp nappies.
 
How about this. Having been there and seen the results of a soccer brawl, they would be far more likely to prevent injury and death by banning BEER and SOCCER> They make seem to be a national DUTY to sitfor a acouple of hours and suffer to watch SOCCER.>when that fails to offer amusement to the peasant hordes. They serve them drink. LOTS of it, gallons of the stuff, and the serve it pipping hot, they call it warm but it is hot when you get it at a Soccer Pitch. And they wonder why people upon leaving five hours of BOREDOM interspersed with hot beer, become violent, and Violent they become. anyone wearing even a smidgeon of the wrong colors is beaten within an inch of there life if they are lucky.

Ban SOCCER and BEER in England. violence will stop.
 
Ban SOCCER and BEER in England.
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Pete - I am an Ex Pat - and until 2000 when I left thought exactly that - and still do in fact.

For some reason the idiots who go to games have only drink and ''trouble'' in mind - it seems they do not want to watch the game - which incidentally always bored my butt off - but that's just me LOL!

In fairness, there are folks who genuinely want to go for sensible reasons - trouble is, so often - they get their whole session ruined by the punks. To maintain a weapons flavor - the worst of these too will often have blades and/or box cutters with them!!
 
From BBC Online this evening

Disabled parking row knife attack

Williams was 'furious' at not finding a vacant parking bay
A man who wrongly parked in a disabled parking space at a supermarket had his throat cut by a genuine disabled driver, a court has heard.
David Williams, 49, from Newport, slashed Christopher Barrell's throat with a four-inch knife at Tesco's in Cardiff Road, Newport.

Williams, a former civil servant, admitted causing actual bodily harm and having a bladed weapon in public.

Cardiff Crown Court imposed an 18-month sentence suspended for 18 months.

The court heard Williams, who was recovering from hospital treatment, was furious at not being able to find a disabled space in the supermarket's car park.

Alarmingly, he went back to his car, lit a cigarette and waited 30 minutes for his wife to arrive

Harry Baker, prosecuting

When he saw 42-year-old Mr Barrell sitting in a disabled bay without a permit, he jumped out of his car and shouted at him.

Mr Barrell replied: "Sorry, I won't be long," before Williams produced a four-inch lock knife."

Prosecuting, Harry Baker, said: "Williams reached into the car and slashed Mr Barrell's throat.

"Alarmingly, he went back to his car, lit a cigarette and waited 30 minutes for his wife to arrive."

'Completely blank'

Police arrested Williams after viewing CCTV footage from the supermarket and finding Mr Barrell's blood on the lock-knife.

He said Mr Barrell had been "cheeky" but alleged he could not remember the assault.

Defending, Simon Goodman said: "His memory of the incident is completely blank."

The court heard Williams, his wife and son were all registered disabled, and Williams's medical problems included depression and treatment for psychiatric illness.

Sentencing, Judge Roderick Denyer said: "If you put a knife to a person's neck there is a serious risk of killing them.

"Your wife and son are also disabled and you have to care for them.

"If I locked you up it would have a devastating effect on them."
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Irony? :uhoh:
 
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