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Winchester Xpert 22LR Hates My Gun

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Kramer Krazy

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Dec 1, 2004
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Easley, SC
I figure I'd post this here, as all guns can develop with this issue....

I have a S&W 617 revolver that I shot about 200-250 rounds of Winchester X-pert, lead-nose ammo through it because I can't seem to find the Dynapoints. It functioned fine and shot well, but.....a couple of weeks after that, my wife's cousin wanted to shoot it, too. I hadn't cleaned it since I last had it out, but figured it wouldn't pose a problem. Turns out, the bullets were going through the target SIDEWAYS at 7 yards or so. They were leaving perfect silouhette shapes in the cardboard. She didn't like shooting it as much as Missashot's S&W 22a-1, so we put it up. A couple of weeks later, I decided to clean it....

I had difficulties getting the cleaning rod through the last 1/2" of the barrel, just before the cylinder. Shining a light down the barrel showed it was filthy. I pulled out the copper solvent solution, instead of the Hoppe's No. 9, and eventually I got the rod through it a bit easier. A few more times, and I pushed out a 1/2" long section of lead! :what: Appearantly the lead was building up and clogging the barrel. I eventually cleaned it up and will stick to copper jacketed from now on with this revolver.

Here is a picture of the gun with some of the blockage next to it, and a picture of the lead that I pulled out of the barrel.

617_lead.jpg

lead.jpg

The only reason I'm listing this is because I've never seen anything like this before....and I've shot quite a few rounds in my short lifetime. I hope others can benefit from this.
 
Guns chambered in .22 can be finicky about ammo. There is a rather wide range of "acceptable" chamber dimensions. For example, a true "target" chamber can be rather different than the one in a 3rd-tier Wal-Mart "plinker".

Have a good smith look it over, to make sure the gun is lining up all chambers with the barrel, and that everything is in spec.
 
i havent noticed any excessive leading from xpert in my 22/45 (~750rds), but i do try to stick to other ammos, at the very least round nose, which should feed better in autos.
 
I used to be able to shoot some Winchester .22 long rifle ammunition in assorted pistols years ago, but the quality seems to have fallen to Remington levels.

CCI works much better in all my revolvers and match pistols.
 
i've never seen anything like that. i use winchester xpert with my ruger and havnt noticed anything. i think it good advise that burt blade gave you about taking it in to a gunsmith to look at. at least his opinion cant hurt. ohh by the way, terry, i want your colt mustang.....lol
 
I picked up a box of Winchester XPerts a few years ago for Ammo Day. I found it to be the most godawful crap I've ever shot in .22 rimfire. It leaded up my Single Six, and was very inaccurate in my S&W Model 18 and Winchester 9422. Wouldn't feed reliably in my 10/22, either.
 
Be sure and let us know what you find out, I have a S&W 617 just like yours that also has a leading problem, I have no idea how many rounds you had run through your revolver before cleaning, so its impossible to know if mine leads as badly as yours. It will have some pieces of lead maybe .075X .500 when I clean if I shoot say 500 rounds before cleaning.
 
I shudder to think how many thousands of rounds of .22lr I've fired through numerous firearms and have yet to see anything like that. Even though a lot of cheap .22 ammo is crap in terms of leading and accuracy, this looks like a barrel problem. I'd definately have a good smith or preferably S&W look it over and hopefully replace and refit a new barrel.
You might post this over at rimfirecentral.com as well. Good luck.
 
I've done some research this morning, and it looks like I'm not the only one with this leading issue with a 617. I also recall it spitting more lead out from the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone than I feel comfortable with. I'll probably contact S&W or at least the dealer I bought the gun from. One of the dealer's realitives is a S&W sales rep, so maybe they'll take care of it for me. Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the topic.
 
even dynapoints?



On a side note, what effect with the new Winchester news have on their ammo production?
 
I've never had ANY luck with winchester or CCI ammo. The only .22lr i've found that all my guns will shoot well and function with is remington golden bullet. The CCI stuff had inconsistant velocity and winchester simply wouldn't feed in anything.
 
With my 10/22, Ruger Mk II, Taurus PT-22 and the wife's S&W 22A-1 and 10/22, We have never had a problem like this with any of them and especially with the Winchester Dynapoints (my cheap 22LR ammo of choice). After a call to S&W and being told that the gap between the cylinder and barrel is supposed to be between 0.003" and 0.009", mine turns out to be between 0.011" and 0.012". Also, the timing looks good, but I'm getting some interesting marks on the notches in the cylinder. Called S&W this morning, and they are sending me a pre-paid shipping label to send it back in to get checked out. Hopefully, this gun will be working better than new in a few weeks.
 
I've had the same experience with this ammo through my Ruger 10/22 and my 6" Beretta Neos. The lead deposits happen about 3" from the chamber in the 10/22 and ~1" from the chamber in the Neos. It's a pain in the butt to get rid of if you don't have something like lead removing cloth. Jags are no help since they get stuck, brush bristles bend, eyelet patch holders will make it through unfortunately the rods gets scratched up big time, coated rods lose the coating.

My theory is that the bullet is too soft and starts to melt into the rifling if you shoot alot rapidly (around 250). Deposits compile one after the other. You'll know it happens when the gunshot sounds a bit different.
 
UPDATE

UPDATE: Twelve-day turn-around from S&W. They turned (cut another thread in) the barrel and recut the forcing cone. The cylinder doesn't scrape the forcing cone, but I can't even get a 0.0015" feeler guage in between there. Timing was checked, too, and appearantly was fine......I'm hoping to test fire it in the next few days. I'm also going to use better ammo, this time....I think I have some CCI's around.
 
My wife had the same problem once with her Bersa Firestorm 22. I think it was with Remington Cyclone or Thunderbolt ammo. Thing leaded up so bad the bullets were keyholing, and she got a brass bush hung up in the barrel when she cleaned it. I had to beat the bush and cleaning rod out with a hammer. :what: Thought sure I'd ruined the barrel, but these hugh chunks of lead came out. I finally got it all cleaned out and didn't see any damage, and haven't since. The gun still shoots great, but now she'll only shoot copper clad ammo.
 
well I have learned that 22's are finicky
mine does not like them , but likes Federal ????
 
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