New Second Chance Vest Failure

Here's a verification of this story:

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBLQS4FPNE.html

Well if the article is to be believed, the round nicked his badge first and then had a run-in of unknown intensity with a notebook.

We also don't know the type of round.

Also according to the article, yeah, the vest failed but not very badly. The round had no steam left and didn't cause a life-threatening injury. Remember where a cop wears his badge, right in a REAL bad area. If he walked away from the hospital the same day after being hit there with a 357 then to me, this isn't enough info to condemn the vest. It's quite possible the round's tip was deformed into something fairly pointy by the shield OR a sharp corner of the shield was punched in and made a cut against the vest which opened it up enough for the round. Vests are easily defeated by blades.

The cop is for damnsure better off than he would have been without the vest.

It was about 1:30 a.m. Friday. The bullet - a .357 Magnum - slid below Wilkinson's badge, stabbed through a notebook in his breast pocket and punctured his bullet-resistant vest, police said.

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A bit of a reality check: I've highlighted some keywords that should be noted.

These vests aren't bullet proof. They're bullet resistant. When it comes to gunfire, there are things that can not be counted on, and none of us were there to see the vest being punctured. To make an assumption that the vest "failed" because of it's brand is irresponsible and ridiculous. How do we know the officer was wearing the correct size? How do we know it wasn't expired? How do we know he was wearing it correctly? How do we know it wasn't too loose on him? How do we know the ammunition fired wasn't a super hot handload? How do we know it wasn't an armor defeating round? How do we know it didn't hit at an angle? We don't even know how far it went through the vest. Was it halfway sticking through? Or partly? Or barely?

More "Monday morning quarterbacking" that doesn't serve a constructive purpose.

Here's the same article from Officer.com: http://officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=30662&siteSection=1

IBTL.

A few points.

1. The Monarch vest is not a current-production item at Second Chance. We don't know how old it was.

2. We don't know what the ballistic rating of the vest may have been. Stopping a .357 Magnum round is a difficult thing to do, and low-rated vests are not designed to do so. Only higher-rated vests are supposed to work on it. Unless the officer was wearing a vest of the appropriate rating, it didn't "fail to stop" the bullet - it may not have been designed to stop it.

3. Even though the bullet penetrated the vest, it was slowed down enough to cause only a superficial wound, and the officer was treated and released without being admitted to hospital. That's a darn sight better than it could have been!

Overall, I can't call this incident a "failure" without a lot more information. Looks more to me like a reasonably successful "save".

I sort of agree that the vest seemed to work. It's just the difference between laboratory and real conditions. I'd guess it was an old II or IIa, that performed fine. But I wouldn't put any faith in a badge... They are tin, right?

From Arf:

"Type I (.22 LR; .380 ACP). This armor protects against .22 long rifle lead round nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less and against .380 ACP full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN), with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less.

Type II-A (9mm; .40 S&W). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 332 m/s (1090 ft/s) or less and
.40 S&W caliber full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets, with nominal masses of 11.7 g (180 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I threats.

Type II (9mm; .357 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 358 m/s (1175 ft/s) or less and
.357 Magnum jacketed soft point (JSP) bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I and Type IIA threats.

Type III-A (High Velocity 9mm; .44 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FJM RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less and .44 Magnum jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, with nominal masses of 15.6 g (240 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the Type I, II-A and II threats."

What are most patrol vests rated for? IIA or II?

article says Monarch 329 II, quick search shows that it's level II so if it was a hot round it might have been beyond (or in this case just beyond) the rating of the vest according to the above table, it would have been nice if the officer was able to return fire and end it right there, but it would have been nicer if the BG was still in jail, this story seems to be more an illustration of the failing of the probation board that let this killer loose,

Follow up story from the front page of this morning's Tampa Tribune:

Police Seek Answers After Slug Pierces Officer's Vest
Skip directly to the full story.

By VALERIE KALFRIN The Tampa Tribune

Published: Jun 2, 2006


TAMPA - The Tampa Police Department wants a federal laboratory to test a ballistic vest penetrated by a bullet last week, injuring Officer James Wilkinson.

"We want to find out what the failure was, if there was a failure," police armorer Vernon Schlechty said Thursday.

The police union and the vest's manufacturer applauded the move Thursday, even as a Colorado official who has independently tested similar vests questioned their stopping power.

Wilkinson, 25, is recuperating at home after minor surgery to remove the bullet, which slid below his badge, stabbed through a notebook in his breast pocket and punctured the vest's armored material, officials said. It traveled on an angle, missing the vest's trauma plate and erupting a seam, Schlechty said.

Wilkinson had stopped Tomas Montesdeoca, 51, at 1:30 a.m. May 26 for driving with a suspended license when Montesdeoca fired at him, police said. Three other officers fatally shot Montesdeoca at a Hillsborough Avenue gas station a short time later when he waved a gun at them, police said.

The Department of Justice's National Institute of Justice tests all ballistic material before vests are manufactured. The model of Wilkinson's vest - a Second Chance Monarch 329 II, also known as a Type II SC329 - was rated as capable of stopping a 9 mm or .357-caliber Magnum slug.

Tampa police are not required to wear body armor. The officers who do wear it use one of three brands: Second Chance, Protech and American Body Armor, Schlechty said. He did not have the number of officers using Second Chance vests on Thursday.

The vests are replaced every five years. Wilkinson's was just over one year old when he was shot, Schlechty said.

Shipping The Vest Requires Care

"We're going to get to the bottom of this," police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said. The department wants to feel secure that what officers use is performing adequately, she said.

Schlechty said he is developing a method to send the vest to an NIJ-certified laboratory, possibly in Gaithersburg, Md., that will preserve evidence such as the bullet's path.

The West Central Florida Police Benevolent Association, the union representing Tampa police, said it was glad a federal laboratory is being recruited to provide answers.

"We want to know if we're safe," President Kevin Durkin said. "The potential that this represents - not just for Officer Wilkinson but for anyone wearing [a vest] - is of course cause for great concern."

Second Chance Body Armor Inc. has not examined the vest but thinks it saved Wilkinson's life, said Ron Dornsife, a company spokesman.

A bullet will puncture several layers of a vest's ballistic material as the vest works to dissipate the impact, he said.

If the police department wants an independent test of the vest, "we'd welcome that," Dornsife said.

The vest is made of Twaron, a material "pretty much on a par" with Kevlar, Dornsife said. The company began using Twaron after the patent on Kevlar expired a few years ago.

Public records show Second Chance filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2004 after being sued over vests made of Zylon, a material that NIJ tests found degrades over time. The wounding of a Forest Hills, Pa., officer wearing a Zylon vest triggered the actions, according to the NIJ, and was the first time an NIJ-compliant model failed to perform to specifications.
New Material Employed

Dornsife said the company has not had similar issues with Twaron vests.

However, records posted online by the Colorado Multi-Jurisdictional Vest Advisory Committee - a group of law enforcement officers, procurement officials and vest manufacturers that independently tests ballistic vests - have raised questions about the vests' stopping power.

These records show the Monarch 329 IIA and the Monarch Summit, which Tampa does not use, failed tests the committee commissioned in 2004 and 2005.

Colorado is the only state that independently tests vests after their manufacture, said Michael Wallace, a former procurement officer for Colorado who is on an NIJ committee working to revise the testing standards.

"There's a big difference between the [what is used in] certification tests and the vests given to officers to wear," said Wallace, who was on the Colorado vest testing committee.

Currently, manufacturers submit a sample of ballistic material to NIJ testers that can be as large as 17 inches high by 23 inches wide for a man's vest, NIJ records show. The NIJ did not specify the size of these sample panels prior to March 2005.

The agency does not test used vests. Testers shoot at the wet and dry material against a clay model from a fixed distance, five meters for a Type II vest such as Wilkinson's.

Wallace said the bigger panel allows for more surface area to distribute the bullet's energy. He thinks vests should be tested as Colorado does - right out of the box - and after they've been used to see how they hold up over time.

Schlechty said the suggestion is valid. After all, he said, officers are retested on their levels of fitness and marksmanship.

"You don't know that [the vests] are still being made to the same specifications as the first one," Schlechty said.

Contact Valerie Kalfrin at (813) 259-7800 or [email protected].

http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBDNUBVXNE.html

(Edited to highlight significant points.)

What are most patrol vests rated for? IIA or II?

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My agency leaves that up to the user; II being most common here, with III gaining more popularity. It is recomended that the vest worn be rated to stop the duty weapon's round.

We get an allowance every 5 years for a vest. My next one will be a IIIA.

What is done with the old vests?

are they offered for sale?

I'd rather have a used patrol vest than nothing at all.

I have an old Point Blank. It says for small arms (handguns) only. No other rating is on it. Second Chance always were more comfy to wear (think thinner) when I was in LE. That is an important point. You have to have them on to work. Those who have had to wear them in the summer know it is not an easy feat.
Jim

How can you call it a failure? The officer survived the incident and the vest played a role in that. Walking away from a 357 shot to the chest is a success in my book.

Vest

I'm with Preacherman. If the bullet was slowed and contained well enough to keep it out of the vitals, it was a save. Painful and wicked scary, for sure...but the vest allowed him to go home alive, and it that respect, it did what it was designed to do.

The key word here is "Bulletproof"...which is much touted and leads gentle folk to believe that that's what it means...period. Kevlar vests are bullet resistant. They're not bullet proof.

I agree, obviously, that the important thing is that the officer made it home alive. I don't think anyone is calling it an out and out failure at this point. I do think it is important to find out exactly how the bullet penetrated the vest and compare that information to the previous test data and NIJ certification.

This bullet may have been slowed and contained well enough to keep it out of the vitals, but will the next offcer be that lucky? How much "contained penetration" is acceptable? The NIJ standards require not more than 44 mm (approximately 1.75") of backface signature--"contained penetration," if you wil--and data from the Colorado testing shows that the 329 Monarch IIA vest FAILED to provide that level of containment:

http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/dfp/spo/docs/Fail/SC04514.pdf

Further, the Monarch is not a Kevlar vest, it is made from Twaron. Twaron is a p-aramid fiber like Kevlar, but it IS NOT Kevlar. Kevlar was developed by duPont. Second Chance did not start using Twaron because the patent on Kevlar expired. They started using Twaron because duPont stopped selling them Kevlar.

I have an SC 229 Level II made in 03/1999. It also has the Spectra Trauma Shield. It is used for HD and I have complete confidence in it. Better than a bathrobe or a plaster wall, that's for darn sure...

A little off topic, but what material is their Butterfly Lite level 3A (Series SC 229) vest made from?

EDIT to say I found the answer to my own question.

Tactical Forums has pretty good documentation of Second Chance cutting corners on stitching and layers of the Monarch vests as they started running into trouble over the Zylon issue several years back. If you search you should be able to find those threads. The issue here isn't the material used to make the vest which is well-proven; but the way the vest was made.

My guess is that Second Chance started cutting the safety margin to the very bottom and this is a case of no margin left in the vest and a hot .357 (or not a softpoint). The vest still saved the officer; but I bet a Level II vest from another manufacturer would not have had the problem.

My guess is that Second Chance started cutting the safety margin to the very bottom and this is a case of no margin left in the vest and a hot .357 (or not a softpoint). The vest still saved the officer; but I bet a Level II vest from another manufacturer would not have had the problem.

Click to expand...

I believe you are correct, on all counts.

We're allowed to keep our old, outdated vests. I keep 1 in the trunk for dire emergencies. We also shoot our older ones at the range to prove what they are worth. And to prove how ineffective they are against shotguns and centerfire rifles.

Failure...???

Gimmee a break.

If I were shot in the chest with a .357 and walked away from it, the next thing I'd be doing is looking up Richard Davis and buying him a beer.

KenW wrote: "We're allowed to keep our old, outdated vests. I keep 1 in the trunk for dire emergencies. We also shoot our older ones at the range to prove what they are worth. And to prove how ineffective they are against shotguns and centerfire rifles."

I was curious about the remark about shotguns. Do you mean they are ineffective against pelleted shotgun rounds or against slugs? Or is it just because of the massive energy of almost any shotgun round?

Bottom line Cop is alive because he was wearing the vest.

Without it he would be dead.

Vest saved life!!!

A heavy vest not worn is way more of a hazard than a light vest worn all the time.

Wearing a heavy vest bite it been there done that, wore a lighter second chance every day for over 10 years never needed it but it helped my feeling better.

Remember vests do not make you superman especially since the media harps on cops wearing vests. Now the bad guy figure you are and shoot you in the face or genital area which also happens to contain your pelvis and hips. When you fall down they can then easily walk up and shoot you in the top of the head.

I hate most of the media.