Treason at the New York Times

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The person who leaked the information to the media is the one who commited treason. The media did not overstep its bounds unless what it posted was untrue.
 
The editor and reporter of The New York Times were interviewed on TV last night. They claim they talked to over 20 'informants' about this issue.

I doubt the editor and reporter swore an oath to protect US secrets like these 'informants' did. Yet these 'informants' were so concerned about what the government was doing that they are willing to risk 25+ years in prison for revealing secrets.

That aside, has the government successfully prosecuted ANY employee for revealing secrets to the news media? I don't remember any.

I think the Times did a valuable service to US citizens.
 
Let me restate .. If the adminstration (no matter what it is) asks them not to bring a story, what right does the NYT have to do so? Whether the story was reported prior or not is not the issue, and I doubt if the detail of the story was revealed in the past.

Technically, the fact that the administration asked them should tell you that legally they do have the right to publish it. If they didn't then the government would have ordered them not to publish it under threat of legal action.
 
WT said:
The editor and reporter of The New York Times were interviewed on TV last night. They claim they talked to over 20 'informants' about this issue.

19 in their minds and 1 actual person that told them about it.

WT said:
I doubt the editor and reporter swore an oath to protect US secrets like these 'informants' did. Yet these 'informants' were so concerned about what the government was doing that they are willing to risk 25+ years in prison for revealing secrets..
They are Americans that live in this nation. That is their oath.

WT said:
That aside, has the government successfully prosecuted ANY employee for revealing secrets to the news media? I don't remember any...
Prosecution is difficult but not impossible. It most recently jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for contempt of court but prosecution is difficult since the little worm journalists cry "freedom of press" or some such as their shield for treason...

WT said:
I think the Times did a valuable service to US citizens. ...
Really? What was that? Put every American in greater danger?

Here's a soldier from Iraq (Lt. Tom Cotton) and his thoughts about the cowardly New York Times putting him and other soldiers in danger... well worth reading!
 
Prosecution is difficult but not impossible. It most recently jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for contempt of court but prosecution is difficult since the little worm journalists cry "freedom of press" or some such as their shield for treason...

Yeah. Damn that pesky bill of rights.
 
Senor Rivera's on-air map episode in Iraq was more of a technical misunderstanding by him of the broadcast rules for embedded journalists and yes he did pay a price.
A technical misunderstanding now qualifies as an excuse for treason and aiding our enemies?

Glad to see that excuse come to light.
Surely you are wise enough to spot the difference between this Geraldo issue during initial Iraq invasion (which also happened to several other embedded journalists with Army units) and the NYT giving away state secrets!
I sure do. One gives immediate support to our enemies by telling them the location of our boys in uniform in a combat zone allowing them an easier opportunity to attack. The other, well, doesn't.

But I know which one you're OK with.
 
GTSteve03 said:
But I know which one you're OK with.

I am not "OK" with either; I see though that you wish to equate the two examples when they are clearly not parallel and/or relevant... Even the U.S. Army did not formerly object to the Rivera's mistake or raise it the level you're trying to making it. If they did let me know will you?
 
No easy questions, no easy answers

If it were WWII, would NYT publish the destination of
the battleship North Carolina as it left port for the war zone?

Would that be Freedom of Speech or the Public's Right to Know?
 
I'll agree that the NYT are propagandists, but many of you guys have it the wrong way 'round. They (and specifically Judith Miller) were instrumental in helping Bush sell the Iraq war; they printed every last WMD lie the Bush Administration fed them, knowing the whole time it was nothing but government propaganda.

I'd take a disobedient, inquisitive press over a government mouthpiece every time. Unfortunately we don't have one.
 
The New York Times is not the law and not above the law.

Roger that. Nor is the Executive Branch. Maybe the NYT should have run
a "signing statement" after they ran the story? ;)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060627/ap_on_go_co/bush_signing_statements

Media...Government...people just picking and chosing what they want to
follow. There is no "law of the land" anymore that any of the big guys are
bothering to follow. Every man is his own god. We have exceeded hubris.
 
It's the public's right to know what chuckie schumer will be wearing on the 2nd monday of August, what city he will be in, how many body guards will be with him, what they are equipped with, their planned route and any elevated vantage points, vehicles used and license plates, any allergic reactions, blood type, yaddayadda...

It's the first amendment ya know?
 
As a business owner I have had to report MANY transactions over $10,000.

*** does the gubment need to know that I am paying $15k to an company in Israel for equipment?

I *could* make 3 $5k payments, but then I have broken not 1, but 2 laws.

All for putting food on my table.

The Constitution has the authority to regulate COMMERCE, but withdrawing money from a bank is NOT COMMERCE. Well, it is to you Bush fan boys who are all to ready to give up your freedoms for some ill percieved protection.
 
I think the Times did a valuable service to US citizens.

What valuable service is that exactly?

That "pesky Bill of Rights" does not protect free speech fans from committing treason.

It's true, as Thin Black Line says, that hubris has become an epidemic in American "power circles." For a long time I have watched the psychodrama unfolding. To me Bush is an inept and arrogantly stubborn Daddy surrounded by an obnoxious family of self-abusing, emotionally volatile brats. This Admin and the NY Times not only deserve each other; they CREATE each other. The country's having a nervous breakdown, at least among the higher-ups. The lot of 'em make me sick.
 
Bill O'Reilly on The Factor this evening had Rich Lowry from The National Review on; topic of discussion was the treasonous New York Times. They both came to the conclusion that President Bush needs to 1) revoke the White House press credentials of all Times reporters; 2) arrest NYT editors and force them to reveal the name(s) of the source of the leaks; and 3) make it clear that these actions by the Times have jeopardized national security.

Exactly!
 
Terrorists are not stupid people - they can do intel gathering just as well as we can(look how crappy our CIA is getting these days) and these sort of programs are already in the public documents.

If you were running a terrorist org then you would assume that they were trying to monitor everything you did right from the start - if you didnt then you wouldnt be a very good terrorist.
 
Apparently this SWIFT program isn't so secret. Well, that is if the terrorists are advanced enough to have an internet connection.

www.swift.com

Here's an excerpt from the site:

Given its importance in the financial community, SWIFT takes its role in the global fight against money laundering and other illegal activities extremely seriously:

1. Responsibilities - It is SWIFT policy that its services should not be used to facilitate illegal activities. Users are urged to take all reasonable steps to prevent any misuse of the SWIFT system.

2. Cooperation - SWIFT has a history of cooperating in good faith with authorities such as central banks, treasury departments, law enforcement agencies and appropriate international organisations, such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF*), in their efforts to combat abuse of the financial system for illegal activities.
So, how exactly is all of this secret? :scrutiny:
 
Don't want something printed, then don't leak it! I don't hear to much about the leaker getting blasted in this thread. After all, our Govt could never leak information for the press to print.:barf:
 
It's common sense, CD. The Ts know that their finances are being tracked. The Bush admin is just going to use this to further their agenda.

Biker
 
Our government has launched broad and secret anti-terror monitoring programs without seeking authorizing legislation and without fully briefing the Congress. The Times has asked if these programs are legal. We should believe the President without question? Sieg Heil!

The government runs secret courts and keeps American civilians in military prisons, a flashback to pre-Revolutionary times. The government modified the Laws of War to permit the use of torture to obtain ‘valuable’ military information. Should not The People know about this?

NYPD Commissioner Kelly has repeatedly asked why government employees who leak such information are not prosecuted? We are so willing for forego our 1st Amendment and let the government decide what the media should publish, but we don’t prosecute the actual federal leakers. Why so?

Some may have forgotten that NYC has lost more people in the war against terrorism that has the entire US military in Iraq to date.

As far as USN ship movements? I don’t know about Norfolk but when I was last at Pearl Harbor the local papers published the location and sailing information of 18 submarines and several surface warships based at PH. (FWIW, 9 subs dedicated to OIF and 9 dedicated to NK at that time.)

Yes, some of us knew about these government programs and didn’t talk about it. Does one really believe that thousands of bank employees worldwide didn’t know?

The government should not be dictating what the media should publish. If it comes to that point, maybe we should consider how our military is being used.

I find it so interesting that 2nd Amendment activists are so willing to trash the rest of the Constitution.
 
That's correct, Biker. But, I guess Bush and the .gov need to stop issuing
Press Releases that tell the T's that their money is being watched.

For Immediate Release

contact: (703) 905-3770

March 10, 2006

FinCEN seeks industry input on feasibility of collection of cross-border wire transfer data

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network today announced it is issuing a survey to banking and financial services industry trade groups seeking information about the feasibility and impact of implementing a cross-border wire transfer reporting requirement under the Bank Secrecy Act. The survey, which is required by the Intelligence Reform and Prevention Act of 2004, is part of an ongoing study into the feasibility of imposing a requirement that financial institutions report to FinCEN records that they currently maintain concerning international wire transfers. The American Bankers Association, the Institute of International Bankers, the Credit Union National Association, the Independent Community Bankers of America and representatives of major money wire services are assisting in this effort by distributing this survey to their membership.

“If we can identify data in cross-border wire transfer records that helps protect economic and national security and find a workable way to efficiently collect that data – all while protecting and preserving its integrity - it will enormously strengthen our efforts,” said Robert W. Werner, FinCEN’s Director. “At the same time, we need to ensure that we do not impose regulatory requirements on the industry without the promise of real anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist funding benefits. This survey seeks to help us understand that regulatory impact and we encourage recipients to respond.”

On December 17, 2004, President Bush signed into law S. 2845, the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (Act). Section 6302 of the Act directs the Secretary of the Treasury to study the feasibility of “requiring such financial institutions as the Secretary determines to be appropriate to report to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network certain cross-border electronic transmittals of funds, if the Secretary determines that reporting of such transmittals is reasonably necessary to conduct the efforts of the Secretary against money laundering and terrorist financing.” The Act requires the Secretary to issue these regulations by December of 2007.

Prior to any such regulations taking effect, the Act requires that the Secretary certify that the technical capability to receive, store, analyze, and disseminate the information is in place. The Act also requires that, in preparation for implementing the regulation and data collection system, the Treasury must study and report to Congress the feasibility of implementing such regulations.

The survey will support other efforts to complete the feasibility study. Canada, Australia and many other countries already have systems in place to collect this information. FinCEN is closely collaborating with the Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Center (AUSTRAC), the global leader in this technology, and intends to contract with them for a demonstration of the AUSTRAC system’s compatibility with current FinCEN technology. FinCEN is also soliciting help from several large wire service providers to borrow data to run through an in-house, secure, proof-of-concept system. This data, already required by law to be maintained and recorded, can then be easily accessed and cross-referenced with the Currency Transaction Reports and Suspicious Activity Reports that FinCEN currently warehouses.

Information collected from these transfers will provide authorized law enforcement agencies with valuable pieces to the terrorist funding and money laundering puzzles.

The feasibility study is expected to be delivered to Congress by late spring 2006.

White House Press Release on S 2845:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/12/20041217-15.html

From:
http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_Monograph.pdf

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks
Upon the United States

Monograph on Terrorist Financing

Staff Report to the Commission
...
After Bin Ladin relocated to Afghanistan in 1996, al Qaeda made less use of formal
banking channels to transfer money, preferring instead to use an informal system of
money movers or bulk cash couriers. Supporters and other operatives did use banks,
particularly in the Gulf region, to move money on behalf of al Qaeda. Prior to 9/11 the
largest single al Qaeda expense was support for the Taliban, estimated at about $20
million per year. Bin Ladin also used money to train operatives in camps in Afghanistan,
create terrorist networks and alliances, and support the jihadists and their families.
Finally, a relatively small amount of money was used to finance operations, including the
approximately $400,000–500,000 spent on the September 11 attacks themselves.
....
The U.S. government had recognized the value of enlisting the international community
in efforts to stop the flow of money to al Qaeda entities. U.S. diplomatic efforts had
succeeded in persuading the United Nations to sanction Bin Ladin economically, but such
sanctions were largely ineffective. Saudi Arabia and the UAE, necessary partners in any
realistic effort to stem the financing of terror, were ambivalent and selectively
cooperative in assisting the United States. The U.S. government approached the Saudis
on some narrow issues, such as locating Bin Ladin’s supposed personal wealth and
gaining access to a senior al Qaeda financial figure in Saudi custody, with mixed results.
The Saudis generally resisted cooperating more broadly against al Qaeda financing,
although the U.S. government did not make this issue a priority in its bilateral relations
with the Saudis or provide the Saudis with actionable intelligence about al Qaeda fundraising
in the Kingdom. Other issues, such as Iraq, the Middle East peace process,
economic arrangements, the oil supply, and cutting off Saudi support for the Taliban,
took primacy on the U.S.-Saudi agenda.

The net result of the government’s efforts, according to CIA analysis at the time, was that
al Qaeda’s cash flow on the eve of the September 11 attacks was steady and secure.
....
Bringing jihadist fund-raising prosecutions remains difficult in many cases. The inability
to get records from other countries, the complexity of directly linking cash flows to
terrorist operations or groups, and the difficulty of showing what domestic persons knew
about illicit foreign acts or actors all combine to thwart investigations and prosecutions.
Still, criminal prosecutors now have regular access to information on relevant
investigations, and the Department of Justice has created a unit to coordinate an
aggressive national effort to prosecute terrorist financing.
....
Since the September 11 attacks and the defeat of the Taliban, al Qaeda’s budget has
decreased significantly. Although the trend line is clear, the U.S government still has not
determined with any precision how much al Qaeda raises or from whom, or how it spends
its money. It appears that the al Qaeda attacks within Saudi Arabia in May and November
of 2003 have reduced—some say drastically—al Qaeda’s ability to raise funds from
Saudi sources, because of both an increase in Saudi enforcement and a more negative
perception of al Qaeda by potential donors in the Gulf. However, as al Qaeda’s cash flow
has decreased, so too have its expenses, generally owing to the defeat of the Taliban and
the dispersal of al Qaeda. Despite our efforts, it appears that al Qaeda can still find money
to fund terrorist operations. Al Qaeda now relies on the physical movement of money and
other informal methods of value transfer, which can pose significant challenges for those
attempting to detect and disrupt money flows.

Oh, wait, the T's knew their money was being watched as early as 1996
and had switched to cash years ago.....now *when* was this NYT article
published again....:rolleyes:
 
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