Good thing this wasn't a No-Knock Raid

Although I doubt it will be presented as such, this case has some interesting potential, IE: is it the government's job to protect us from all harm, such as fresh milk?

The truly ironic part is that there are cities full of new age, holistic health types who will drive an hour or more (each way) just so they CAN buy raw, unpasteurized milk. And this moron has to make up a sting to zap some farmer who's willing to give it away?

Some people have way too much free time.

I was under the impression that the Amish didn't even believe in fancy technology like buttons, how are stickers going to fit into their religious views?

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The Amish aren't anti-technology luddites. They evaluate technology based on to what degree it is useful, and to what degree it enmeshes them in the rest of the world, threatening their separateness and independence.

Mennonites, ("Amish light") for example, are OK with cars, the Amish aren't.

The Amish are also familiar with technology, their young folk pass through a few years of "running around" in their late teens, wherein they are released from most of the strictures of their belief system before they decide whether to commit to the lifestyle or not.

just so I understand

The cops and the Govt. wont protect us from criminals..we got thugs out here killing our kids and the the only thing uncle sam is worried about is milk
?
Certainly we could concentrate our efforts on some other "crime" right?? :banghead:

Not like man hasn't been drinking unprocessed milk for say, oh, elevinty billion years.

So if I take a hit from the old lady's feed bags when she's breast feeding (tastes like condensed milk, but warm) can I rat her out to the gubment and get my snitch money????

The agent showed up with a jug and asked for some milk. The Amishman knew he couldnt sell it because since he needs his dairy license he knows the rules. Since he saw someone in need of milk, he followed his beliefs and gave to someone in need. After getting his jug of milk, the agent tosses $2 at the farmer and takes off. Now the milk was "sold," and not given.

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So if a vice cop were to go to a bar, pick up some chick, go back to her place and engage in sex and then drop some money on the dresser on his way out the door he could arrest her for prostitution?


Smells like entrapment to me.

Hunting is pretty big with the Amish in NE OH. See them all of the time at Great Lakes Outdoors. There is one Amish (forgot his name but see him nearly every time I'm there) woring behind the counter. Bow and black powder seems to be the weapons of choice.

Friend of mine who works at a custom rubber processing company (internal mixers, mills, etc.) has at least half of the production folks as Amish. (They commute daily in a van driven by a non-Amish.)

This is just one more example of someone knowing they are smarter and more enlightened and, therefore, have virture on their side. It's the same attitude that motivates all do gooders (gun grabbers, tax hikers, etc.).

I've bought an awful lot of raw milk straight from the holding tank and it's main problem was it'd only last about 5-6 days before going sour. Of course we always made sure to step in and say hi to the girls while we waited. They seemed very contented.

Buzzwords

To the one that posted about entrapment. READ WHAT IT IS. I am pulling out my hair hearing entrapment everyday.

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I do know what it is, and would like someone to explain why it does not apply to the case at hand.

I don't think that you can say that the farmer came up with the idea himself, it obviously came from the agent, who came walking up the driveway with an empty milk jug, as a stranger.
The article stated that the farmer was leary of the idea, to me that sounds like the agent probably had to do at least a little coersion.
The only thing that I can see in this scenario which would defeat an entrapment defense would be if the farmer was "predisposed to the crime". If you think that having a large drum of milk at the house is evidence for predisposition to the crime of giving out unpasteurized milk for free in the same way that a guy carrying a pound of maijuana in his car is evidence that he is predisposed to the crime of selling drugs, I guess you can think that. Personally, I think it's a weak argument, who knows how many kids the farmer has, or even why he had such a large tank of unprocessed milk. Was it a holding tank for milk to be processed? Or maybe sold to a company that processes milk?

The other thing that is unclear to me is the actual crime commited. Was it giving the guy the milk itself, or was the crime the fact that he took money for it? If the crime was the actual transfer, then see above. If the crime was taking money for the milk, we have descended into a bottomless realm of rediculousness trying to argue whether entrapment applies. From the story, the agent gave the farmer the money after recieving the milk, and then quickly left. There was no previous agreement that there would be money exchanged. If the crime was taking the money, then the agent coerced at best, and FORCED at worst the farmer to commit a crime. What do you call that?

If you can't or don't want to answer my question about why this is not entrapment, then just ignore the question. Ranting about how you are sick of hearing the word does nothing to further the discussion.

Otherguy, I like that--stealing it for my sig...just fyi...

Although I doubt it will be presented as such, this case has some interesting potential, IE: is it the government's job to protect us from all harm, such as fresh milk?

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Right! Right! Should have charged farmer bob with cardiac assault because that milk wasn't skim either. (but not place him under cardiac arrest)

IMO the only threat the Amish pose is if you shake hands with them. By shaking I mean, firmly grasp and then applying steady pressure until the city slickers hand is crushed and tears are in his eyes. (I didn't cry it was just my allergies from all the outdoor activity) I demand that the government require the Amish to wear orange stickers on their hands that "shaking may result in severe damage to the phalanges".

guy knew not to give away the milk and did it anyway. Its not like he was arrested or charged.

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I thought it was illegal to sell the milk, not give it away. The cop was the one who turned an act of charity into a crime by tossing money at the farmer and then taking off.

I realize that there is an instinct to protect brother officers but if the facts are as alleged, the fault lies solely with the cop on this one.

Possession of a controlled substance with intent to distribute!

Randy

Ohio must be a great place to live.

They must not have any real crime there if law enforcement has time for this stuff.

Ohio must be a great place to live.

They must not have any real crime there if law enforcement has time for this stuff.

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Dealing with real crime involves dealing with real criminals, and the resultant risk that goes along with that.

Besides, this is about revenue, not crime prevention. If you go after crooks, you usually don't get much in the way of revenue. If you force farmers to get dairy licenses, that puts money in the pocket of the state.

I agree with what secondamendment said ... they won't address some of the serious problems which plague our society so they hassle Mennonites and their HEALTHY milk. But this reminds me of a church lady that I knew one time who wanted to bake a cake for a poor couple's wedding who couldn't afford one. In the end she accepted $ 20.00 to cover some expenses and some jerk reported her for "operating a bakery without a license"

I knew a Catholic Priest who was a pacifist who owned a firearm for both sport and protection.

I hear the BODE (Bureau of Dairy Enforcement) has specially trained dogs to sniff out contraband Amish milk.

IMO the only threat the Amish pose is if you shake hands with them.

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Well, there's other threats like.......B.O.
Man, they will about knock you out!

Hmm. You guys have to understand, the arresting agency is the Ohio Department of Agriculture. I have no doubt that the most exciting regular events that occur for the agents of that department investigate are things like, who tipped farmer Bob's cows last night, or was that silo explosion spontaneous combustion of grain particles in the air or a terrorist attack? They need something to liven up their lives and this lengthy investigatio0n just helps keep their mental capabilities (or lack there of) in tip-top shape. They probably staked out and monitored Arlie Stutzman's farm for months for other illegal activities like excessive bovine flatulance and stockpiling bomb-making fertilizer.

cny cacher:

The reason they aren't explaining how it isn't entrapment, is because it is entrapment.

The reason people get tired of the word "entrapment" popping up every day, is because law enforcement engages in it every single hour, of every single day and continue to get away with it.

The reason they can do so, is because the SCOTUS manufactures "laws" and can claim them "Constitutional" in order to assist in those occurrances.

For the same purposes, they will deny rights exist, which are clearly set forth within that document in simple language, conveniently enumerated for easy reference.

Why the do that, I simply can't figure out. But they somehow get away with claiming it is Constitutionally legal, to outlaw the sale or transfer of ownership of a food product, created by God himself.

These guys, must be really, really smart, in order to figure out a way to do that.

Another great example of government making friends and helping people.