Self organizing systems...

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beerslurpy

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/04/ntraffic04.xml

Dutch town got rid of virtually all stop lights, signs and signals. People compensated by becoming more careful and accidents are way down. People also commented that you could get across town more quickly. Pedestrians reported greater safety and efficiency as well because drivers were more observant and pedestrians tended to pile up before crossing.

This matches my observation that taking the back streets of tallahassee to get to law school (where there are almost no lights or signs) is 10x faster than taking tennessee street which is relatively high capacity but has tons of stop lights.

If anything I will tend to fly through green lights at absurd speeds without checking, which is probably less safe than having to slow down and check for other people approaching the intersection. Maybe roundabouts are the way to go, though I have had bad experiences with them as well.

Also interesting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...QYIV0?xml=/motoring/2006/10/14/mflights14.xml
UK policymakers are obsessed with segregating traffic. But it could be integrated, especially if vehicles were electric, which would reduce noise as well as air pollution. City centres and no-go zones could become civilised havens in which even blind people could move safely. The same is true of other forms of traffic control. In Montana, USA, scrapping speed limits brought a 7mph drop in average speeds and a 30 per cent reduction in accidents.

n Drachten in Holland, "shared space" pioneer Hans Monderman removed traffic lights and signs. Streets and pavements were levelled and cobbled, street activity encouraged. Accidents, congestion and journey times fell, and now road-users smile. Shared space relies on interaction and drivers behaving well - which, in the absence of controls, they do. Given responsibility, they exercise meaningful self-control. Monderman walks into the road without looking, knowing that drivers, undistracted by lights, are watching the road.
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Not having to watch for speed traps and lights is 10x safer than the typical american scene of people barrelling along and then slamming on teh brakes every couple of minutes when their radar detector goes off.
 
No, this caution is a fundamental part of human nature. When not told how to behave, people tend to adopt behavior suitable to their surroundings. Regardless of licensing.

People that drive recklessly do so regardless of signs. The problem is that signs dont have their desired effect- they impose the same standard of care regardless of the conditions. This is less safe because the person driving has more information about current conditions (traffic, weather, pedestrians in street) than the sign maker did. Unless the road conditions never change, the sign is always either restrictive in its excessive caution or encouraging a mode of behavior that is clearly inappropriate for the conditions.
 
Now you're speakin' my language, looking at the psychology aspect of it all.

I guess that is part of the reason the Autobahn is safer than our roads. Still I think driving skill is a big factor, some people simply aren't qualified to drive, regardless of signage and laws.
 
some people simply aren't qualified to drive, regardless of signage and laws.
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And ^ that ^ would include nearly everyone in the NY/NJ/PA tri-state area, especially those natives of NYC, all of NJ, and anywhere within 40 miles of Reading, Pa.
 
I think you'd also have to consider that the culture is different also. In the U.S., too many of us are always in a rush. That idea would be multiple multi-car accidents waiting to happen.
 
I think you'd also have to consider that the culture is different also. In the U.S., too many of us are always in a rush. That idea would be multiple multi-car accidents waiting to happen.
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Perhaps, but it has been my observation here in my area of Colorado that when the traffic lights go out, people tend to treat intersections and the like as four way stops.

This could be due to what beerslurpy has noted, or just plain paranoia that they may know how to treat such situations, but who knows what the other lunatics on the road are gonna do?
 
This makes sense, through my eyes as a mom. Human beings push external limits, but usually respond well to internal ones.

Back when I had toddlers, when I would take them to the playground on a Saturday morning I was always amazed at the number of moms saying, "Beeee carefulllll honnnnney..." while their kids really pushed the limits of safety, swinging upside-down by their ankles from the top of the monkey bars or doing jumping jacks at the top of the slide. The moms would be right underneath the kids, ordering them to be more careful in that really obnoxious mom-voice that really is more whine than command.

My own kids, natural daredevils all, never really acted much like that. When we got to the playground, I would sit down on a bench. Like all the other daredevil kids, they would immediately clamber to the top of the monkey bars, sometimes even standing at the very apex or doing something equally stupid to get my attention. "Look at me!! MOM!! Look at ME!!" The woman next to me on the bench would gasp in horror. I would smile and wave. The kids would look at me and my non-reaction, look down at the ground far below, and then carefully climb a little lower to play. No point in pushing the limits when Mom wasn't even going to jump up and yell.

Appropos of nothing much, I guess. But human beings only get older; they never really grow up.

pax
 
No, it's very apropros of the whole nanny-state approach towards fixing problems.

I posted those articles because they really woke me up to the possibility that we could prove these things scientifically. In a socialist country of all places. Little things like getting rid of traffic signals could potentially launch ordinary citizens onto paths of reasoning that might result in them realizing that they have a brain of their own that works just as well as that of the bureaucrat who timed the traffic signals and set the speed limits.

This sort of attitude, if we can cultivate in enough places, could lead to the destruction of gun control measures once people start to think for themselves and reject regulatory oversight of their lives.
 
Ditto Pax's insight.

My kids are daredevils.

The simple truth is that we define around them an envelope of accepted behavior.

Off limits is behavior likely to result in death, dismemberment, and permanent damage.

Rule 1: Don't drown.
Rule 2: No plummetting.
Rule 3: Don't blow yourself up. Some things in your environment go boom*, fwadz, fwoosh, are sharp and/or pointy, or just plain burn you. Don't touch them.

Just about anything else goes.

Because there is room for failure, pain, cuts and bruises, they've learned to be careful when and where it counts from natural consequences.

Many other kids on the block, who have suffered from helicopter mommies are timid little things who just sort of doink around on the swings through maybe 60 degrees of arc. My kids aren't happy unless the swing is doing at least a 180 degree arc, and would be happier still if I could get it to go the full 360.



*Of course we lock up the guns & ammo.
 
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