Its nickel finish, has a lot of #'s...crane, barell, on the inside of sideplate, cylinder... ' don't know w/c one is the real serial #. Its smallish (J frame?) and has 4' barell. The finish is pretty sad, but it functions well!.. hey for $60, ' guess I can't complain! Can anyone ID what model this is? Thanks in advance!
' found an unloved S&W .32 long..
- Thread starter Longbow
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It is most likely a .32 Hand Ejector made from 1908 to 1976. Before 1960 on the "I" frame, after on the "J" frame. The number on the butt - and maybe matching on the barrel and cylinder - is the serial number. Numbers on and under the yoke are fitters numbers to keep parts together at the factory before a SN is given.
Unless I miss my guess, because I don't have my books in front of me, that makes it most likely a Regulation Police I-frame made probably in the late 1930s.
It should have 5 screws, in the right hand side plate and a 5th one in the front of the frame in front of the trigger guard and a half-moon front sight.
It should also be an I frame.
It should have 5 screws, in the right hand side plate and a 5th one in the front of the frame in front of the trigger guard and a half-moon front sight.
It should also be an I frame.
Its exactly as you described!
You must be a serious collector, eh?
Would a .32 long be a good enough self defense round? Or is it considerably weaker than a 9x18 Mak? I'm thinking of just selling this and picking up a Makarov. And lastly, Is there any collector value in it? Thanks again!
You must be a serious collector, eh?Would a .32 long be a good enough self defense round? Or is it considerably weaker than a 9x18 Mak? I'm thinking of just selling this and picking up a Makarov. And lastly, Is there any collector value in it? Thanks again!
Nah, not a serious collector, just love my S&Ws.
OK, now that I have my books in front of me that serial number is a bit later than I thought, probably very late 1930s or even early 1940s. Definitely an I frame, though.
It could be one of two models.
The first is the .32 Hand Ejector Third Model. Barrels were 3.25, 4.25, or 6".
The second is the .32 Regulation Police, made with the same barrel lengths.
The way to tell the difference is the butt configuration.
When you take the grips off, the bottom rear of the grip frame will either be rounded inward (round butt) or will have something of a flare to it (square butt).
If it's a round butt, it's a .32 Hand Ejector Third Model. If it has a square butt, it's a Regulation Police.
The RP also had a "stepped" backstrap that is very obvious when you take the grips off.
OK, now that I have my books in front of me that serial number is a bit later than I thought, probably very late 1930s or even early 1940s. Definitely an I frame, though.
It could be one of two models.
The first is the .32 Hand Ejector Third Model. Barrels were 3.25, 4.25, or 6".
The second is the .32 Regulation Police, made with the same barrel lengths.
The way to tell the difference is the butt configuration.
When you take the grips off, the bottom rear of the grip frame will either be rounded inward (round butt) or will have something of a flare to it (square butt).
If it's a round butt, it's a .32 Hand Ejector Third Model. If it has a square butt, it's a Regulation Police.
The RP also had a "stepped" backstrap that is very obvious when you take the grips off.
It has a stepped backstrap and somewhat round butt.
The bottom of the wood grips say's " PAT. JUNE 15 1917".
I bought a box of ammo and ' hope to test fire it tomorrow. I also thoroughly disassembled the gun for cleaning. Not much rust inside, just on the grip/handle. The cylinder chambers and rifling are near perfect. I notice it has a very different firing pin block, its unlike any S&W wheel guns I have. Its also odd that the gun's cylinder won't rotate if pointed upwards. Now I know why its sold.
The bottom of the wood grips say's " PAT. JUNE 15 1917".
I bought a box of ammo and ' hope to test fire it tomorrow. I also thoroughly disassembled the gun for cleaning. Not much rust inside, just on the grip/handle. The cylinder chambers and rifling are near perfect. I notice it has a very different firing pin block, its unlike any S&W wheel guns I have. Its also odd that the gun's cylinder won't rotate if pointed upwards
. Now I know why its sold. Bingo!
You have a "Regulation Police" model. Six shot, .32 S&W Long, "I" frame (like the "J" frame but shorter) with checkered walnut grips. The safety-in-the-sideplate predates the one currently used. BE CAREFUL! the hand that rotates the cylinder also operates the safety and it sounds like something is wrong with it. There is a small coil spring and lever inside the trigger that pushes on a pin in the hand to tension it. Repairs should not be expensive or difficult.
You have a "Regulation Police" model. Six shot, .32 S&W Long, "I" frame (like the "J" frame but shorter) with checkered walnut grips. The safety-in-the-sideplate predates the one currently used. BE CAREFUL! the hand that rotates the cylinder also operates the safety and it sounds like something is wrong with it. There is a small coil spring and lever inside the trigger that pushes on a pin in the hand to tension it. Repairs should not be expensive or difficult.
Stepped backstrap means a Regulation Police.
The RPs were the only .32s made with the stepped backstrap.
As for the .32, no, I wouldn't really consider it to be a very effective personal protection round, but it's better than nothing.
The safety block you're seeing is known as the old style, or the hammer activated block. It was added around 1915-17 due to British experience with S&W revolvers in WW I.
It was changed to the modern hammer block after experiences in WW II in which stiff grease or dirt could deactivate the hammer block.
The cylinder won't rotate if the muzzle is pointed up?
Hum... I'll have to think about that, and possibly pull my 1917 .32 Hand Ejector apart to see what the cause of that might be.
The RPs were the only .32s made with the stepped backstrap.
As for the .32, no, I wouldn't really consider it to be a very effective personal protection round, but it's better than nothing.
The safety block you're seeing is known as the old style, or the hammer activated block. It was added around 1915-17 due to British experience with S&W revolvers in WW I.
It was changed to the modern hammer block after experiences in WW II in which stiff grease or dirt could deactivate the hammer block.
The cylinder won't rotate if the muzzle is pointed up?
Hum... I'll have to think about that, and possibly pull my 1917 .32 Hand Ejector apart to see what the cause of that might be.
Ahaaa! I found the coil spring! I knew I'm missing something, just don't know what. Problem solved!
Guys, I really appreciated all your info and help, thank you all so much! Man, I love this place!
Guys, I really appreciated all your info and help, thank you all so much! Man, I love this place!
"Ahaaa! I found the coil spring!"
Uh.... Coil spring?
Off the top of my head I can only think of a three coil springs on I-frames of this time frame, and they shoudn't have anything to do with the function of the gun when the muzzle is pointed up...
1 coil spring in the thumb latch slide...
1 coil spring in the rebound slide
1 coil spring sitting around the "5th" screw in front of the trigger guard...
Uh.... Coil spring?
Off the top of my head I can only think of a three coil springs on I-frames of this time frame, and they shoudn't have anything to do with the function of the gun when the muzzle is pointed up...
1 coil spring in the thumb latch slide...
1 coil spring in the rebound slide
1 coil spring sitting around the "5th" screw in front of the trigger guard...
Yeah, you're right, I jumped the gun (pun intended ) when I saw a little coil spring laying around (turns out it doesn't belong on the gun), based on what Old Fuff said. I thought its the answer to my problem. I guess I got a lot more to do.
) when I saw a little coil spring laying around (turns out it doesn't belong on the gun), based on what Old Fuff said. I thought its the answer to my problem. I guess I got a lot more to do. Now Mike's got me worried ......
My personal Regulation Police is in storage and it's been awhile since I looked at it. However I know that the hand must be pushed forward by some kind of spring pressure. I thought it used a system similar to the 1905 Hand Ejector in which there is a small lever in the trigger that rests on a pin in the hand. At the front of this lever is a small coil spring.
Remove the trigger and hand assembly, and then pull off the hand. If the hand has two pins in it, one that it pivots on, and a smaller one in-front-of and above the piviot pin then something inside the trigger should rest on the smaller pin.
If not, look inside the hand cut-out in the sideplate and see if there is any evidence (such as a hole) where a spring and plunger could go that would push on the hand. Not likely, but possible.
In any case something has to push the hand forward and keep in contact with the ratchet as it (the hand) moves up to rotate the cylinder.
My personal Regulation Police is in storage and it's been awhile since I looked at it. However I know that the hand must be pushed forward by some kind of spring pressure. I thought it used a system similar to the 1905 Hand Ejector in which there is a small lever in the trigger that rests on a pin in the hand. At the front of this lever is a small coil spring.
Remove the trigger and hand assembly, and then pull off the hand. If the hand has two pins in it, one that it pivots on, and a smaller one in-front-of and above the piviot pin then something inside the trigger should rest on the smaller pin.
If not, look inside the hand cut-out in the sideplate and see if there is any evidence (such as a hole) where a spring and plunger could go that would push on the hand. Not likely, but possible.
In any case something has to push the hand forward and keep in contact with the ratchet as it (the hand) moves up to rotate the cylinder.
Fluff,
Hum...
I'm going to have to look at mine this evening...
I thought the guns of this age had a small leaf spring to do this.
Hum...
I'm going to have to look at mine this evening...
I thought the guns of this age had a small leaf spring to do this.
Mike,
The top-break's do have a flat spring on the back of the hand, somewhat like a Colt Single Action. I thought of this possibility, but I don't see how it would work because the Regulation Police hand has a cam on the back to work the sideplate-mounted safety. Like you I'm stuck because I can't lay my hands on a gun right now. I'll be interested to see what you find out.
The top-break's do have a flat spring on the back of the hand, somewhat like a Colt Single Action. I thought of this possibility, but I don't see how it would work because the Regulation Police hand has a cam on the back to work the sideplate-mounted safety. Like you I'm stuck because I can't lay my hands on a gun right now. I'll be interested to see what you find out.
I'm going to pull the RP apart tonight and take some pictures of the parts in question.
I'll probably have to charge the camera, but hopefully by Midnight I should have some illustrations of the parts in question.
I'll probably have to charge the camera, but hopefully by Midnight I should have some illustrations of the parts in question.
This is getting interesting!
Old Fuff,
How small is that spring? What I've found is a small one w/ a size like the trigger return spring but with less coils, is this it? I might have to fabricate one.
Old Fuff,
How small is that spring? What I've found is a small one w/ a size like the trigger return spring but with less coils, is this it? I might have to fabricate one.
The spring I have in mind (if they’re really is one) is about 3/32†in diameter by 5/8†long, or perhaps a bit shorter. It is nested inside the trigger fingerpiece, and vertical when the trigger is in the forward position. I know the “lever & spring†system was used in “K†and “N†frame revolvers up through the early years of World War Two. Just wait a bit – Mike will find the answer.
OK, Fluff, the spring you have in mind came about because of the lockwork changes in the gun in the 1940s when the new hammer block was adopted. The hand is not controlled by a spring in the trigger assembly as it is now.
I forgot to charge the batteries in my camera, so I don't have any illustrations right now. Hopefully I'll be able to get a partial charge and post some pix.
Longbow, essentially I believe your hammer block mechanism is not functioning.
When you remove the sideplate and look at it, you'll see the slot in the plate in which the hammer block is recessed.
Holding that part in place is a cross pin that is just above the hammer pivot pin hole.
This cross pin is spring loaded, and bears on the hand. At rest, the pin is supposed to protrude into a recess in the hand and allow the hammer block to come between the hammer and frame.
As the hammer is cocked, the hand moves up and cams the pin backwards. This, in turn, depresses the hammer block so that the hammer can fall fully.
This spring loaded pin, when fully functional, serves also to keep the hand pushed forward.
I believe in your case the hammer block pin is crusted into the frame probably will old grease and dirt. That's what the British found in their guns during WW I.
If the pin is back, which I suspect that it is, this allows the hand to drop out of proper alignment when you elevate the muzzle.
You need to soak the sideplate and get that pin operating properly.
Since it's not operational, this means that the hammer block safety has also likely been defeated.
I'm trying to figure out how to get this pin out of the frame, but nothing I'm trying is working.
But, in any event, this pin is the root of your problems. I'm certain of it.
I'll take some photographs as soon as the camera batteries charge.
I forgot to charge the batteries in my camera, so I don't have any illustrations right now. Hopefully I'll be able to get a partial charge and post some pix.
Longbow, essentially I believe your hammer block mechanism is not functioning.
When you remove the sideplate and look at it, you'll see the slot in the plate in which the hammer block is recessed.
Holding that part in place is a cross pin that is just above the hammer pivot pin hole.
This cross pin is spring loaded, and bears on the hand. At rest, the pin is supposed to protrude into a recess in the hand and allow the hammer block to come between the hammer and frame.
As the hammer is cocked, the hand moves up and cams the pin backwards. This, in turn, depresses the hammer block so that the hammer can fall fully.
This spring loaded pin, when fully functional, serves also to keep the hand pushed forward.
I believe in your case the hammer block pin is crusted into the frame probably will old grease and dirt. That's what the British found in their guns during WW I.
If the pin is back, which I suspect that it is, this allows the hand to drop out of proper alignment when you elevate the muzzle.
You need to soak the sideplate and get that pin operating properly.
Since it's not operational, this means that the hammer block safety has also likely been defeated.
I'm trying to figure out how to get this pin out of the frame, but nothing I'm trying is working.
But, in any event, this pin is the root of your problems. I'm certain of it.
I'll take some photographs as soon as the camera batteries charge.
BINGO!
Just figured out how to get the pin out!
You have to push down on the hammer block just above where the pin crosses over it. If it's operating properly, it will pop out of the recess.
If you take it out, when you go to reinstall it, note that it is shaped and you have to have the scalloped side facing down.
The hammer block itself appears to be staked into place, however, so I'm not going to be removing it.
There is a VERY small coil spring in the hammer block pin recess. For God's sake don't loose it! You'll never find it.
Just figured out how to get the pin out!
You have to push down on the hammer block just above where the pin crosses over it. If it's operating properly, it will pop out of the recess.
If you take it out, when you go to reinstall it, note that it is shaped and you have to have the scalloped side facing down.
The hammer block itself appears to be staked into place, however, so I'm not going to be removing it.
There is a VERY small coil spring in the hammer block pin recess. For God's sake don't loose it! You'll never find it.
Ok, here are the pictures we've all been waiting for!
I included some explanatory text that isn't showing up on this picture.
To see that, you can view these photos at:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid2140597
The password is smithwesson19
I included some explanatory text that isn't showing up on this picture.
To see that, you can view these photos at:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid2140597
The password is smithwesson19
O.K. .........
The "spring & plunger in the sideplate" was my second thought.
Thanks for getting to the bottom of the problem. Now I'll know what too do when I next take a 1903 H.E. or Regulation Police apart.
The "spring & plunger in the sideplate" was my second thought.
Thanks for getting to the bottom of the problem. Now I'll know what too do when I next take a 1903 H.E. or Regulation Police apart.
I see a hammer/firing pin block but no hammer block pin. No recess on the hand either. Just some sort of channel to deactivate the hammer block when the hand goes up ( when hammer/trigger is pulled) and activates the block when the hand goes down.
Is there a hole in the side plate for the pin?
If it's missing, you'll have to get a new one.
As for the hand itself...
Hum...
I've not had too many I-frames open to check this.
I wonder if the hand could have been replaced with a newer one over the years and the pin was removed because it wouldn't work?
I really don't know.
Any chance of you posting some pictures?
If it's missing, you'll have to get a new one.
As for the hand itself...
Hum...
I've not had too many I-frames open to check this.
I wonder if the hand could have been replaced with a newer one over the years and the pin was removed because it wouldn't work?
I really don't know.
Any chance of you posting some pictures?
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