who is Appleseed?

Which appleseed?

There's Johnny Appleseed.

There's the cyberpunk manga/anime Appleseed by Masamune Shirow. Killer borg, guns and girls stuff! I want to build a Gong [10ga anti-borg shotgun pistol] someday.

Then there's the "become a rifleman" Applseseed shoots organized by Fred's M-14 Stocks.

Appleseed

The Appleseed project is the brainchild of Fred, from FredsM14stocks.com

Fred is a High Power shooter, a garnad and M1A afficiando, a gentlemen, and a scholar of American History.

He was a member of a gun club (with 600 yards, and Pop Ups) in Ramseur, NC, and founded the RWVA...The Revolutionary War Veterans Association (www.RWVA.org) ...as the club changed management.

Fred has committed himself to the principle of Rifleman MArksmanship. To the memory of the Citizens who on April 19, 1775 left their homes and families to stand united against an occupying army (the British) attempting to disarm the populace...effectively making them slaves to an overbearing remote parliment and king.

He has committed himself to exercising the rights and fulfilling the responsibilities those men died for at Lexington, and during the years that followed as America won her independance.

And he is committed to defending the Declaration of Independance, and its premises, the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

Johnny Appleseed was a frontier personality who travelled west, spreading apple seeds as he went so that when the settlers would follow him later, there would be apples to eat.

The Appleseed program seeks to awake Americans to their responsibilities, and to help them re-learn the fundemantals of Rifle Marksmanship, by using the WWI/WWII Army Qualification Target in a plan of instruction that allows most everyone to practice...at 25 meters, with any rack grade arm and surplus ammo.

Please check out the links attached, and read through

http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?board=47.0

and

http://www.rwva.org/oldsite/appleintro.htm

and http://www.rwva.org

for more info and details!

Pacer

Appleseed is: http://www.rwva.org/

I recently attended an Appleseed shoot in Davenport, Florida (right outside of Orlando) this past weekend. Gotta tell ya, it was DEFINATELY worth the $70 for two full days of instruction. RWVA members are NOT re-enactors, nor are they some kind of crazy tin-foil hat wearing, extremist militia. They're just regular middle class Americans who love shooting sports and want to ensure the freedoms guaranteed by the Second Amendment. ( If you don't think the Second Amendment is in danger, you're in for a big surprise come 2008 elections and the beginning of the second Clinton Assault Weapon Ban...and then more).

Anyway, the class is two days of marksmanship. You're taught three different sling styles (HastyHasty, Hasty, and Loop), you try them all, find one that you like and stick with it. All shooting for the rest of the weekend is done with a sling on. There's AQT targets, multiple courses of fire, and shooting from freehand, seated, and prone. Most shooting is done at 25 yards but at that distance, you're trying to get all your shots into one square inch.
Lots of AR's, some Cetme's and FaL's, SKS's, 10/22's, M1's, M14's, and even some AK's. Safety is top priority, the event was taught by excellent instructors (who by the way are volunteers who came from all over the country to instruct this past weekend), and everyone had a great time. There is ball and dummy drills so if you have a flinch/jerk/blink/twitch or whatever, they will find it, they will fix it (or at least try to ).

Basically, if you love to shoot and love America, you'll be in the company of ALOT of new friends. The only reason NOT to attend an Appleseed shoot is if you're some extreme left-wing gun-grabbing liberal Communist. Otherwise, you'll do just fine.

What to bring? Go to the RWVA website, the list is there. All they ask is for you and your rifle to show up (with ammo of course). Bring friends, lots of friends, lets teach as many people as possible how to shoot, accurately, correctly. I don't care how good of a shot you think you are, EVERYONE can learn something from an Appleseed shoot, I went with few skills and came away from two days of instruction a much better shooter than when I arrived, skills I'll practice for the rest of my life (and my Rifleman patch).
DO IT! Sign up, it's the best $70 you'll spend this year. I can guarantee that if you do one, you'll want to do another.

Sorry about the rant. I was a little skeptical before I went, almost didn't go, but did go and am glad I did. If you can't do both days, don't panic, you can do one for only $45. You can piss thru that much $ in ammo in a couple of hours at the range. Why not put the same money to good use and learn a few things to make yourself a MUCH better shooter.

+1 to all the above positive comments. I took my 10-year old grandson to the Boulder City NV shoot two weeks ago. He shot a Ruger 10/22 and learned what all of us with the .30 caliber battle rifles were learning. Great people, great organization. Very cheap marksmanship training.

To everyone, take friends and family to the next one close to you. One rifleman by himself in a dire situation could be helpful, but a local team of three or four similarly trained and effective individuals could be devastating--both for the "soft" war, the political one we now must be fighting, and perhaps for harder times that may lay ahead.

CB3

Who is Appleseed

I've been to two last year. The first held in non ending rain for both
days without any type of shelter. Ages of approximateley a dozen
shooters from ages 9 to 68, where all improved in their shooting skills
A month later the same group traveled 100 miles to a different area to
once again further their skills and up grade in some cases rifles. This
shoot was a little kinder as the shooting stations were some what covered
with less moisture. The first group failure to function rifles were the ARs
followed by rim fires. Winners were Garands, M 14s, and bolt centerfires.
The bottom line is for these shooters to be able to pass on these shooting
skills to other new shooters!

We must remember that our knowledge, skills, experiences, and training do not belong just to us. They were passed down from those who went before, and are on 'loan' to us, to be preserved, added to, polished, retested occasionally, and then passed down to those that follow. This is Appleseed. This is RWVA. This is 'why'.

Okay question about the Appleseed events. Due to the fact I do not have the room to shoot a rifle that is that close to me my shooting skill, is shall we say very lacking. Because of that I have been hesitant to attend one fo the events for fear I would be the "weakest link" so to speak. I have heard some conflicting information on the web as to you can be a novice to attend up to "if you aren't a good marksman don't come". To those who have attended which is it?

Billy Sparks ,in regards as to youre question"I have heard some conflicting information on the web as to you can be a novice to attend up to "if you aren't a good marksman don't come". To those who have attended which is it?"
I can tell you that my 6 year old daughter will be at the appleseed with a 10/22,and the last appleseed i was at ,had a 7 year old girl learnin and having fun with the rest of us.Your skill level should not be a consideratiion when planing to attend an Appleseed.Just sign up and come!

Hey Bill,

They usually have on the firing line, beginners up to pros. The idea is to come and improve your skills, and have fun. One of the nice things about the Appleseed is the willingness of everyone to help, to be part of the "community" of the weekend. Bunch of helpful friendly people

You will enjoy yourself, and learn a bunch. They will sent you home with some improved skills and an invigorated spirit.

Hope to see you at one soon.

"I am confused" "Come as you are" " Don't come"

Bill Sparks

First, thanks for stirring this up.

Secondly, I want to reinforce what DAVECAMPPERRY said...it's about KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS, and ATTITUDE.

OK, if you haven't got space to practice, don't expect to make "rifleman" and score 210 the first time.

BUT I"D RATHER HAVE YOU "GREEN" Than have you with bad habits

Here's what I would want you to do (yes, I am an Appleseed Instructor, Ill be running the PA shoots and visiting a few others, health permitting)

1. IF YOU DO NOTHING ELSE for prep, OBTAIN and READ Fred's Guide to becomming a Rifleman. http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp

Don't want to spend FRN's yet? Go here http://www.rwva.org/oldsite/rifleman.htm#whatis

2. Take the time to STRETCH OUT your body. Get into "Prone", by the numbers, and hold that position for 5 min, doubling the time every day. Do the stretch maybe three times a day (your body will thanks you) Same for sitting or kneeling (depending on your dunlop, back, or your knees).

Pick up your rifle, and do more stretching and positioning. We'll do the tune up on site (sorry, no _great_ pictures yet, but we're working on it)

3. Take your rifle, whatever rifle, and make sure it WORKS. Clean it. Lube it. Makeit your brother Shoot soem rounds down range, anywhere safe and legal, and make sure it functions. Clean it again, and lube it. We'll work on the six steps and trigger control on site.

4. IF you have a place, AND you have the basic skills, IT IS WORTH YOUR EFFORT TO GET A ROUGH ZERO TO YOUR SIGHTS. This is the big stumbling block for many milsurp rifles, in that you may not have the tooling yet, and your position is still too "fluid" to be stable. But a rough zero, where the sights and the rounds hit the same 8.5 x 11 paper at 25 yards, will get you started! Our goal, and if you ahve more time, go for it, is to SHRINK THAT group from 8.5x11 to a 3x5, and finally to a 1" Square at 25 (4 MOA)

Don't fret. If you have the rifle and the drive, we'll make the time to get you started. Some folks come with the opinion you'll leave finished. No, you leave after the leavening is added. You WILL need to tpractice and hone the skills, but you'll have a much stronger foundation to get the perfect practice that makes perfect!

Now, as to the stick you bring.

Lots of folks come and shoot the entire course with a .22

10/22 are a favorite because they largely mimick the function of a mil battle rifle. Guys who are committed have done it, within the same time limits, with bolties, so no one is 'crippled' by lack of a stick.

WE ENCOURAGE MIL SURP RIFLES AND HUNTING RIFLES with mil surp or over the counter ammo. Nothing special. It's the shooter we are working with to improve

I (ME) Encourage you to use a .22 if you have it for the intial stages. Why? Low?no recoil or noise to distract your body while I'm building muscle memory of the six steps. And it's cheap as heck to feed for the 400 or so rounds we expect to shoot at a "GRAND TOUR" Appleseed stop (the 2 day clinic).

Yes, it won't be real easy when we move out to 100 yards or more (where available) for some "zero refinement" exercises. We do that for less than 5% of the program. Don't sweat it. Or bring your MBR (main Battle Rifle) with a zero on it, too.

But PLEASE DON"T not come because you think you're not good enough. That's our job, to take your "apple seed" and makeit sprout.

Fingers off the trigger until the sights are on the target...
And the down range backstop is clear.

Pacer

Loaners

At most Appleseed shoots there are extra rifles brought just for the purpose of making sure everyone who wants to shoot can. So, even if you don't have a rifle, just say so when you sign up and one could be provided (Pre-registration is very desirable).

If this is arranged ahead of time, you should know what caliber of ammo to bring, but if not, then bring some cash to pay for someone else's ammo, especially if it is .30 cal battle rifle. The best loaner for a les ecperienced shooter is a semi-auto, magazine fed .22, and you can buy a brick (500 rounds) of .22 ammo from Walmart for $10. That's more ammo than you will use at an Appleseed.

The Appleseed folks just want to get people out and teach them about our history and how to shoot better. There is a lot of learning, some competitive pressure (mostly against yourself improving), and a whole lot of fun and comraderie. Any possible objection or stumbling block you have to an Appleseed can be overcome.

Come one, come all, as long as you can be safe. Young, old, women, challenged, whatever. You will agree it is the best 70 shooting dollars you have spent in a long time. I drove 900 miles round trip to my last Appleseed. It's worth it.

CB3

*

In Davenport this past weekend there were plenty of young (and old) shooters with little or no shooting experience. It's a great place to learn HOW to shoot, that's why we're all there. 7 year old girl with 10/22, one guy brought a friend/new shooter and loaned him a Mosin (talk about a sore arm!), and day two had a newbie with a loaner AK...all just in my squad, and there were three or four other ranges going at the same time with even more new shooters.

Don't put it off, you'll learn skills that you'll use your entire shooting life.

Here's the range report I posted on Rimfire Central:

I attended the Orlando Appleseed shoot over the weekend. First, let me say that if you ever have the chance to go to an Appleseed, by all means do so! Those of us newbies learned riflery from some really first-class instructors. Even the seasoned hands learned a thing or two. For more info, check out RWVA.org.

Most of the rifles at the shoot were centerfire rifles. A lot of AR's, AK's and even some FAL's and SKS's. Since I have had some severe shoulder injuries in the past, I didn't want to take a full-power .308 (the only other rifle I have) so I went with my 597. Other than sling swivels and a sling, this rifle is totally bone stock:



The instructors showed us proper ways to sling up, the 6 steps to a good shot, how to find your Natural Point of Aim, and then some. All shooting was done at 25 yards. I was using the factory buckhorn sights. The first day, we fired around 120 rounds. I was using CCI Mini-Mags. Feeding, firing, and ejecting was flawless until the end of the day, when I had one round jam up against the upper edge of the chamber. This jam came off a Gen II magazine that I have sanded the follower down on. That night, I made sure to clean the rifle well.

The second day, we fired around 150 rounds. I switched to Federal Premium Gold Medal Target ammo. Again, feeding, firing and ejecting was flawless, until nearly the end of the day, when I had two rounds short-stroke the bolt. The only thing I noticed that was the same on both days was that accuracy (which started out fine) seemed to deteriorate at the very end of the day. I can't be sure, though, if that was the fault of the gun, or of the shooter. The days were vere strenuous, as we were firing from offhand, sitting and prone, and we were firing some timed events calling for magazine changes and transitions from standing to sitting, etc. Here are some of the groups I shot the first day, with the Mini-Mags:

5 shots fired from a seated position, with a mag change after the first two shots:



4 shots fired from prone:



Two groups of two shots each, fired from the prone:



One question I have is this: How many shots should I expect to fire before leading of the barrel starts to effect the rifle's accuracy?

Also, I noticed that the first day, I had lubed the guide rails with a very light coating of Miltec grease. The second day, I left them dry. It was with the dry rails that I experienced the short-stroking. Coincidence?

But I digress... I couldn't be happier with the performance of the 597, and at the risk of repeating myself, if you ever get a chance to attend an Appelseed shoot, jump at it! You won't regret it!

Best training you will find for the money.

RWVA is a good bunch of people, well worth the visit over at the RWVA Forum.

Folks under 20, as well as current members of the Armed Services attend for FREE. Now, just how many places will teach your teenagers for no cost to you?

Pacer, I have ordered the guide hopefully my schedule can allow me to make it to a event. I am less than a hour from Ramseur. The Greensboro gun show is weekend after next and usually there is a RWVA booth. The last time I stopped at it the guys manning it were more interested in the conversation they were having than asking me if I wanted anything.

Billy...

Good for you.

I'll pass your concerns on to the "right" guy.

Sorry you felt brushed off.

They are a great bunch of dedicated volunteer instructors.

Pacer

I am one of the RWVA instructors. Let me assure you our training is applicable to the weak links and the experienced shooters. None of us get paid. I don't handle the finances, but I'd be damn surprised if our fees even cover the instructors' travel costs. For the ones I've traveled for, I get promised a room shared with two other guys, and an egg mcmuffin and two cheeseburgers per day.

We love to shoot and love to pass it on. Plus, quite frankly, the more folks we train, the more folks America has who are willing to write their congresscritter over their 2A rights.

Any chance

of an appleshoot coming to OK?Would love top attend some of these,but according to the calendar,the nearest one is 300 mi away and thats in Oct.Any help from the origanizers or instructors would be great.

It's up to you

Yes,there is a possibility.

We need "boots on the ground" to find land, or a range, that would be suitable, and to assure the necessary sanitation facilities can be arranged,etc.

Should you be willing to take this on, I suggest you got to http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=535.0

if you want more info, PM me with your email address and I'll send some pdf's that may be helpful

Pacer

Appleseed cancelled the California shoot.

Im fuming. Ive been looking forward to and praticing for the Saugus shoot for 6 months. I get word today that its been cancelled because the shoot may be seen as illegal militia activity by lawyers in this state.
Im in constant practice, but I have to admit I was thrilled that an organization would have the guts to come here to KALI and give me instruction.
As a reference the state of California has the largest population in the country. We have over twice the population of Texas(the next largest). Though the state is mostly liberal weenies, there are still MORE conservative folks here than most midwestern and southern states. There are alot of us, and we are forgotten at times and overshadowed. Its not to be, at least for now. I may look at the Vegas shoots, I dunno.

I'm going to be looking for a chance to attend one of these shoots. I want to learn position shooting and the chance of knowledgeable shooters leading me in the right direction...well, I've just got to go!

I registered onto their site a short time ago so I can find out when there will be an event close to Nashville.

Mark