Data on Tazer induced deaths being suppressed

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wacki

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Peer review journals are far from perfect. Bad papers make it through all the time. (More often in bad journals, far less often in journals like Nature and Science) But this kind of interference and intimidation is something else....

http://crunchgear.com/2007/03/07/a-...hat-the-manufacturer-doesnt-want-you-to-know/

To the more than 10,000 law enforcement agencies who use them, Taser-style stun guns probably seem like a godsend — a quick jolt of electricity and even the brawniest and most berserk criminal can be brought to the ground. No guns, no deaths and no permanent damage.

Or so Taser International, the weapon’s manufacturer, would have you believe.

However, a CrunchGear investigation paints a different picture. Not only have at least 167 people died after being Tasered, according to The Arizona Republic (although the number of these deaths that can be directly attributed to the weapons is disputed), but there appears to be an aggressive effort by the company to silence critics and to control data and, on occasion, manipulate statistics with the intent of preserving an illusion of safety surrounding its products.

What follows is a column, and is opinion. All statements of fact have been attributed to sources. I have to say this because Taser is a highly litigious company that does not take kindly to criticism, as you shall see.

Not surprisingly, Taser executives are adamant about the safety of its products — ask one and they’ll likely bring up the “hundreds” of Taser shots they’ve taken themselves over the years.

In fact, Taser is so proactive in painting the image of its products as safe that it offers to shoot anybody who approaches the company’s booths at trade shows — an offer that ABC News reporter Amanda Congdon took up at CES this year in one of the show’s most memorable moments (an act that Jon Stewart called “Look-at-me-reporter-crap”).

And the company is quick to tout the devices’ law enforcement benefits. “The field results are extraordinary and dramatic,” says Steve Tuttle, Taser International’s vice president of communications. “We’re reducing officer-related shootings. Here in Phoenix there was a 54-percent drop in officer-related shootings that Phoenix reported as a direct result of Taser technology.”

This would be great, if it weren’t a spin on the facts. A quick call to the Phoenix Police Department revealed this statistic to be highly misleading.

“Tasers were deployed to everybody in the department beginning in 2003,” says Dave Kelly, a Phoenix Police Department lieutenant who works in officer training. “We went from 24 officer-related shootings in 2002 to 12 in 2003. But we didn’t stay there. In 2004, we had 20. It really bounces back and forth. Can we attribute any drop to the implementation of the Taser? I’m not comfortable saying we can.”

However, for the sake of balance it must be noted that Kelly, as well as other law enforcement officials I spoke to, say Tasers have an important place in law enforcement when responsibly implemented. Of course, it is only logical that having access to a weapon less lethal than a gun would prevent deaths. This statistical manipulation, though, appears emblematic of how the company handles data related to the safety and effects of its devices.

Double-blind

I come from a family of scientists and was raised to believe that the peer-reviewed system of verifying and disseminating scientific data is the best we have. From a personal standpoint, the most offensive actions from the company are undoubtedly its practice of suing medical examiners and researchers who have published peer-reviewed reports critical of Taser’s products. Not only does this violate the good faith of the scientific community, but it has a chilling effect on research — discouraging scientists from even touching related studies out of fear of retaliation. This was confirmed by a number of scientists who refused to speak to me on the record regarding Taser out of fear of reprisals.

Taser’s lawsuits include cases against medical examiners in Indiana and Ohio who cited Taser-induced electrical shocks as the cause of death. But perhaps most striking is the case of James Ruggieri. In early 2006, Ruggieri published an article in the peer-reviewed Journal of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers. The study, “one of the few scientific studies of Taser’s electric jolt in which the company did not participate,” as The Arizona Republic put it, concluded that Tasers were far more powerful than the company acknowledged and that the devices are capable of causing fatal heart rhythms.

Not taking the criticism lightly, the company sued Ruggieri for defamation, claiming he lacked the expertise to make such judgments, even though his story passed through the rigors of the peer-review screening process.

“They are ruling with a very heavy hand all the data,” says one researcher who requested anonymity on the subject, again out of fear of retaliation. “An immediate red flag in the scientific community is ‘who is funding the source.’ I’m not aware of that many independent studies on the safety of Tasers — most of the research is from people who are somehow associated with the company.”

While the number of completely independent studies on the dangers of Tasers is limited, some of the ones that do exist suggest they are anything but harmless — particularly in regards to their effects on the heart and the nervous system.

For example, in addition to Ruggieri’s study, a recent study conducted by scientists in Toronto on pigs showed that Taser shots to the chest can interfere with heart rhythms in a way that causes instant death. (To avoid such results, if somebody must get shocked, Dr. Zian Tseng, MD, an assistant professor of medicine at the University of California-San Francisco, suggests law enforcement aim for the limbs or back, so as to avoid effecting the heart. And, if possible, he suggests Taser-issued officers carry defibrillators in the trunks of their cars in order to respond to any unexpected cardiac issues.)

And then there are the effects of Tasers on the human brain and nervous system. Although there is very little research on this, studies have been conducted examining the effects of electrical shocks that are virtually identical to the ones delivered by Tasers. These studies suggest such shocks can cause serious, and potentialy long-term, damage to cognition and the central nervous system.

“For the most part, the only information that’s available is promotional information provided by the company,” says Neil Pliskin, Ph.D. director of neuropsychology and professor of clinical psychiatry and neurology at the University of Illinois at Chicago. “Some electrically injured patients are at risk for other types of insults to their brain and central nervous system, and it would seem to be incumbent on the scientific community and those who are interested in the effects of electrical shock to look at this issue. Any risk of electrical shock could theoretically be applied in consideration of Tasers, although until scientific information comes out either in support or against it, it would just be speculative. The problem is that studies still need to be done. But lets put it this way: If it was me invited to go over and get shocked at their booth, I’d probably decline it.”

Better Than a Gunshot

Even Taser’s harshest critics acknowledge that being shocked is highly preferable to a gunshot. The problem seems to be that in its proactive presentation of the products as nearly-harmless — through a combination of suing critics (effectively silencing potential critics), controlling relevant research, and offering Taser shocks to anybody who passes by its booths at conventions — the public perception of Tasers becomes one of a device that is entirely non-lethal, making their misuse inevitable. Just ask Mustafa Tabatabainejad.
 
I don't buy all of this criticism of the Taser that argues based on how "deadly" they are. When you consider the number of tasers in use by LEOs around the nation and the number of times they are used (a lot), and the number of years that they have been in use, 167 deaths (many of which are, as the article itself states, disputed as being caused by the Taser) is a very very small number. Most of those deaths are likely of people who had certain types of drugs in their systems which cause a predisposition for cardiac arrhythmia.

And the so-called "lethality" of the taser is no more than any other things on the same plane of the use of force scale such as beanbag shotgun rounds, etc. The big advantage to the taser is that it prevents the need to go to a higher level of force (i.e. lethal force), and is much more preferable to, say, several baton blows, choke hold, or any number of other compliance techniques, both for the officer and the suspect. The taser delivers instant compliance because it causes loss of muscle control.

As an EMT who has responded to countless patients in police custody, I love the things. I would much rather deal with two small prongs (or in the case of the drive stun capacity, no punctures whatsoever) than a gunshot wound or injuries caused by baton blows or other fighting with the officer. And I have never seen any permanent or even semi-permanent effects from being tased. Hell, I never see any effects at all. Even patients who are very drunk or otherwise altered have not suffered the "sudden death" that the article suggests.

Oh, and Mustafa Tabatabainejad deserved what he got. I think he deserved more for the fool he was making of himself. It was an obvious attempt to draw as much attention to himself as possible and then intentionally refuse to comply with the police - he deserved it. And whatever anyone might think, those officers were acting within the scope of their policies. There was no "misuse" - and the implication that there was misuse is idiotic on the part of the article, the author of which I'm sure has no experience in police work or tactics whatsoever. :fire:
 
I don't know what to think about them anymore.

On one hand, I think there may be some sensationalism involved in the criticism.

I have been shocked by a low voltage stun gun (my own doing when I was young and wanted to know how bad it felt) - and all I can say is if that was less than 1/5 of what the taser guns put out - there's no way in heck I'd want to experience a full lightning ride.

They scare the heck out of me.

Although I'll concede that it's probably better than getting shot by lead.
 
Expandable batons can kill too, as well as the peperball guns. Boston PD killed a lady at a baseball game IIRC with a pepperball gun. Mace can cause a severe allergic reaction or triger asthma, both potentially life threatening conditions. Handcuffs are pointed on the end and have been known to penetrate skin. An open hand strike can kill a person if they turn wrong. Oh! By the way does anyone know what the leading cause of stroke in US adults under the age of 40 is?















Chiropractic spinal manipulation!
 
Although I'll concede that it's probably better than getting shot by lead.

Though people may die from tasers, they're far less lethal than firearms.


I really, really, don't think that tazers are being used in situations where lethal force is called for. I have to say that's a specious argument, the 'would you rather be shot by a Glock?' line. Rather than lives saved, it's more likely minutes and hours of time-consuming dialogue and physical contact that is saved. Admittedly, that saved time is in itself a good thing - but at what cost? Violence that is too clinical, too clean, frightens me with it's ease of abuse.


I too am withholding judgement on how dangerous Tazers really are.


However one time at customs my father grumbled while filling out a form, and the customs officer threw a fit. It was uncalled for, provocative, and just plain rude. If that type of person were to have and use a tazer in one of their induced 'incidents', and the receiving person was my father with a heart condition, I'd be righteously angry.

I simply don't trust the average person, including officers of whatever jurisdictions, so I'm skeptical.
 
167 is a pretty low number,especially if you consider that without a Taser the guys getting zapped probably would have taken a bullet...in which case there'd probably be a lot more deaths(and lawsuits). I don't know how they're marketed but to save legal hassle Tasers should be touted as significantly less lethal as opposed to simply non-lethal. In other words, there's no guarantee it won't kill ya but it's better than a few rounds of hollow-point .40 huh?

Btw I've been zapped by a mild stun gun on purpose ("pssh,how bad can it be") :what: Jiminy Christmas. I have no desire to ride the bull.
 
The scope and intent of the article quoted is not to paint Tazers as a bad product devoid of usefullness. The article is intended to point out that the item discussed has risks involved with it's use that the manufacturer would like to keep hidden. Is being tazed preferable to being shot. DUH....no brainer on that one. If you can prevent an incident from escalating to the point where broken bones from batons or GSW's occur than the tazer has done it's job. But the problem is that the manufacturer is attempting to bury any evidence of the fact that their product has some inherent risks including the risk of actually killing someone by electric shock. Any company that sues in court to suppress research into their product has something they are hiding, and whatever they are trying to keep suppressed is not going to be good news, especially for that companies profits.

The manufacturer of Tazers wants the general public to believe that these are nonlethal devices with virtually no risk. They are wrong. These are less lethal devices that carry real and significant risks to persons being subjected to their effects. By touting the item as having no significant risks they are giving a green light to LEO use as a means of compliance for any and all subjects who don't immediately bow down and scrape the ground in deference to the badge. TV is replete with videos of officers tazing a subject for simply running his mouth. No overt physical act to indicate a threat to the officer, simply verbal contempt of cop. Officers are recorded
using these devices to elicit compliance based on this companies advertising that such a use is both safe and appropriate. That is where the problem lies.

The company needs to be forced to turn over all of it's research on these devices. They need to be slapped down and even punished legally for
maliciously filing suit to prevent legitimate researchers from evaluating the risk their product poses to the general public. And if research shows that these devices pose a real risk of death to the average citizen, and I would be willing to bet they are riskier than advertised, stricter guidelines on their use by LEO must be created and enforced.

The problem is not that being shot is a preferable choice. The problem is too many officers view them as a toy and a quick answer to the loud mouth in front of them. Too many departments lack sufficently strict guidelines on appropriate use. Officers have no reason to not use them, this can get people dead, dead without any real justification for it.

And as an aside. I did conductive heart studies in a cardiac cath lab with cardiologists for several years. The current level put out by these devices
is more than adequate to cause a fatal arrythmia in the proper circumstances.
 
I don't know how accurate any of the published reports are, so I won't comment on the preponderance of Taser use by LEOs or it's "less than lethal" result. I will say this, though: if you fully cooperate with whatever "authority" is requesting you to comply, you won't have to take that Electric Ride. If you are not cooperating, ya get what ya ask for, and, usually, so do the cops, eventually. If ya wanna play the game, you gotta know the rules. When it comes down to you and LE, the cards are stacked in their favor, and rightly so. Just comply, and you won't end up dead or with an electric perm. Simple, no?

Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
 
This is a little o.t., but I got taser'd once, and I'm ready for another round. I think I can stay on my feet this time.

O.k., I can't. But I did get zapped (voluntarily) once for a demonstration, and it wasn't that bad. I don't think I got any brain damagedamagedamagedamage. It made me cry out like a little baby and drop to my knees... sort of embarassing.:eek: Right after the shock ended, I thought I might have messed myself, but I hadn't.:what:

I'm guessin' a couple of the 167 might have been related to some other things. Folks who get tased on a Sat. night at 2:00am aren't exactly living the clean and healthy lifestyle.
 
I'm worried about the trigger happy folks -they've got the thing on their belt, and wanna try it out. They've been trained. And they've been issued it, and they really, really wanna see if it works. And when Joe Six... er... Twelvepack doesn't step outta the car fast enough, ZZZAAAAPPPP!

Actually had that happen where I live... Guy had had a beer or three too many, and was slow getting outta the car (situation: he walked out of the bar, got in his car, and as he was pulling out of the parking lot, he saw the cop starting up and rolling behind him - so he pulled over - I guess he figured it was the polite thing to do. Right about when the guy hit the lights. Then he didn't move fast enough when they asked him to exit the vehicle... er... get outta da car... and they lit him up.)
 
My concern would be police becoming complacent about the use of the device. There are pretty tough rules about when it's acceptable to use "deadly force", but it does not strain credulity to imagine an officer thinking to himself "Well, it's not like it's deadly" and deploying the Taser in situations where he wouldn't have otherwise deployed an actual firearm.

The problem with the suppression of information about the hypothetical dangers associated with the use of the Taser is that it hinders the possibility of the education of officers in the possible risks associated with the use of the device. If nothing else, you're setting some officer up for a wrongful death lawsuit if he just doesn't know that they have the potential to be lethal, and he deploys in some possibly ambiguous situation, and the guy on the other end of the line dies.
 
167 is a pretty low number,especially if you consider that without a Taser the guys getting zapped probably would have taken a bullet...in which case there'd probably be a lot more deaths(and lawsuits).
Take a look at the video linked from the article on the quoted website, the one linked to the text "Just ask Mustafa Tabatabainejad." It's hard to imagine that that was a situation in which shooting the suspect would have been deemed justified. He may have been an acting unwisely/inappropriately (I'll withhold judgment since we don't know for sure what led up to the encounter), but he doesn't seem to have done anything justifying the use of lethal force.

I'm not saying Tasers shouldn't be used, just that the threshold for use seems to be well below that of "tak[ing] a bullet", at least in some cases.

-twency
 
I know how to avoid getting killed by a Tazer. I shut my mouth and do what I'm told. I can always fight for my civil rights at a less hectic time.
 
Taser's point of view on these deaths reminds me of the line where the shooters says," He didn't die because I shot him 6 times in the chest with a .45, he died because his heart stopped beating!"
 
Wolfsong: There are plenty of situations where not only do you not have to comply with the "authority" of LE officers, but where you have a moral duty not to. If the taser becomes a compliance tool, rather than a tool for taking down a violent and threatening individual, then it is going to be used A LOT more often than other forms of physical force (gunshot, baton, chemical, or even hand to hand).

Should you do what the LE asks you to do 99%+ of the time? Sure. Of course. Duh. The problem is, though, that there are LE that abuse their authority, or are simply busy/lazy and want a quick fix. The taser allows them to escalate to the use of physical force a LOT earlier in the game then they would otherwise do so. If the taser training was of the sort that said:

This is a less than lethal device, and it can certainly kill someone in the right circumstances, and you can never be sure if the subject you are tasing is going to react to it, so, only use it if you were otherwise willing to use physical force/violence, cause your ass will be nailed if you use it innapropriately............

I think that you wouldn't see people being tased for running their mouth, asking why they are being detained, etc...

That kind of training/warning/review of taser use by officers isn't going to happen when EVERYTHING they hear about tasers is that they are harmless.

LE need to be just as accountable for their actions as citizens or residents, if not more.
 
Wolfsong: There are plenty of situations where not only do you not have to comply with the "authority" of LE officers, but where you have a moral duty not to. If the taser becomes a compliance tool, rather than a tool for taking down a violent and threatening individual, then it is going to be used A LOT more often than other forms of physical force (gunshot, baton, chemical, or even hand to hand).

Should you do what the LE asks you to do 99%+ of the time? Sure. Of course. Duh. The problem is, though, that there are LE that abuse their authority, or are simply busy/lazy and want a quick fix. The taser allows them to escalate to the use of physical force a LOT earlier in the game then they would otherwise do so. If the taser training was of the sort that said:

This is a less than lethal device, and it can certainly kill someone in the right circumstances, and you can never be sure if the subject you are tasing is going to react to it, so, only use it if you were otherwise willing to use physical force/violence, cause your ass will be nailed if you use it innapropriately............

I think that you wouldn't see people being tased for running their mouth, asking why they are being detained, etc...

That kind of training/warning/review of taser use by officers isn't going to happen when EVERYTHING they hear about tasers is that they are harmless.

LE need to be just as accountable for their actions as citizens or residents, if not more.

Do LEOs over react and abuse their authority? Yes, they do. Should they be held accountable for any and all actions, being justified or not; yes, they should be.
Would you rather stand by your "moral obligation" and risk the likelihood of ending up beaten or tased or shot or dead? Or would you rather take your "moral obligation" intact into the courtroom and have your day in court?

Yes, there are situations that one might be justified and legally and morally correct in not cooperating with LE, but that's not what I understood this thread to be about. The topic is about the lethal possibilities of using a taser, not about the individual situations that caused a taser be employed.

I based my post on how I view reality from where I stand, and on nothing else. This isn't about good cops\bad cops. That's for another discussion. there is no foolproof weapon or tool that will guarantee safe de-escalation of all people all the time. Tasers statistically are less lethal than shooting someone with lead bullets. Comply with the police and one greatly reduces the probability of being mistreated by LE. That's my take, and I stand by it.

Peace and God bless, Wolf.
 
What I find funny is that around here, in order for an officer to be able to carry a taser, they have to be hit with it first, same with mace. The reason being, it is said, is that you won't keep laying on the button of the taser or keep macing someone with the mace because you know how painful it is and you'll be able to tell from your own experience if the person is done resisting or not.

It's a good thing they don't require the same for carrying a handgun.
 
What I find funny is that around here, in order for an officer to be able to carry a taser, they have to be hit with it first, same with mace. The reason being, it is said, is that you won't keep laying on the button of the taser or keep macing someone with the mace because you know how painful it is and you'll be able to tell from your own experience if the person is done resisting or not.

It's a good thing they don't require the same for carrying a handgun

The reason for the taser hit in training is NOT to see how painful it is but how incapacitating it is..If your taser is taken in a fight, up the matrix to level six to deadly force...
 
Would you rather stand by your "moral obligation" and risk the likelihood of ending up beaten or tased or shot or dead? Or would you rather take your "moral obligation" intact into the courtroom and have your day in court?

Unless you've got somebody videoing the encounter for you your chances of even getting your "moral obligation" discussed in court is slim, the chances of prevailing against the word of LEO is even less likely. The whole point of the posted article revolves around two premises. First is that Tazers are probably significantly more dangerous to life than the manufacturer wants known and they are operating with a very heavy hand to keep that fact secret. Second, officers who use a Tazer under the conditions advertised to them by the manufacturer are risking a citizens life unknowingly. They do so thinking that the risk of their actions is minimal at best. That is why standards for use and
a real threat of punishment for misuse must be in place for LEO. Otherwise, as is true of so many other things, those in power will abuse that power simply because they can. This needs to occur proactively, not as the result of some settlement from a wrongful death suit.
 
Hey,

During My LEO Training, (I hold a Degree in crimminal justice as well as wisconsin state law enforcement certification, tho i am not at preseant a LEO) I was sprayed with pepper spray (OC) and hit with a tazer several times each. In fact, i was at one point a certified tazer instructor. I would take 10 hits with a tazer before another shot of pepper spray. In my opinion, Tazers are much more human than pepper spray.

I would LOVE to hear accounts from anyone else who has been hit with a tazer.
 
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