Kates, Nemerov: OUR GREATEST ENEMY - PRO GUN WACKOS

Cork pay attention. If only it was illegal to murder 30 people Cho wouldn't have done it. All that's needed is a law that says it's illegal to murder people. That's how laws work...

Well, if that law didn't stop them maybe the law against carrying a firearm on campus stopped him. Oh darn, it didn't either.

Well if they make a law against tens of thousands of people even being able to own firearms, surely that will stop one or two psychos from buying guns.

Oh darn, it seems when criminals can't buy guns they just steal them or use bombs or knives.


Every one of these threads is insane, they always are full of people who claim to be gun owners, but at the same time are basically admitting they're in favour of gun control. And they are so dumb they think 'gun control' can be controlled.

Laws arent necessarily on the books to stop 100% of crime from happening. By your logic, we should do away with all speed limits because people speed everyday. Speed limits must be useless right? Just because Cho or some other maniac can get a gun from somewhere else does not mean it's prudent to simply allow them to buy guns legally at a shop. I dont see how anyone could think it's unreasonable to deny weapon purchases to those who are dangerous to others. Also, being a "gun owner" doesnt mean I should automatically suscribe to your absolutist line of thinking. I own a Chevrolet and I dont agree with everything other Chevrolet owners think.

Every one of these threads is insane, they always are full of people who claim to be gun owners, but at the same time are basically admitting they're in favour of gun control. And they are so dumb they think 'gun control' can be controlled.

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Its really easy to be an absolutist with blinders on.
-12 year old gangbangers are going to get guns if they want them, why not make it legal for them to purchase them in a gunshop?
-If If a guy has just gotten out of prison for armed robbery, why shouldn't he be able to purchase a firearm legally also? I mean the laws aren't going to stop him from committing the crime again anyway.
-A man walks into a gunshop and places an order for 20 Glocks and states that he wants to arm his Posse, why should we be concerned?

I've met Howard

he is a good guy, great writer too.
I've put a couple of his articles here on thr.

i think the nra needs to stop whining like a girl when it gets some criticism, but that's just me I guess.

How is NICS "broken" exactly? You know what, I don't worry all that much about "wacko's" getting guns. If things went back to the way they used to be, the "wacko's" would be weeded out soon enough by the normal folks. I worry alot more about a government that will find a way to label everyone as suspect in some way--what percentage of the population takes some form of anti-depressant or went to counseling at some point? I used to fill prescriptions for a living once upon a time, and I can tell you it's a hell of alot of people, and many of them are leading citizens on their communities. With healthcare info being centralized more and more and national ID's being foisted on us, how long before individuals who utilized counseling services or took some antidepressants to get over a loved one's death or something get that knock at the door one day, and people who might benefit from some counseling don't seek it out for fear of such things? That's way more likely to happen in my book than some nutjob coming to my door. The nutjob would have to deal with my dog and my guns, but smarmy government types will get you from the safety of some back office.

Scubie,


Well said.

I have said it so many times that this is getting old, but the fact is that the NRA has become a major political lobbying force. Politicians fear the NRA, because of its size, and numbers alone are what makes the difference.

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And losing a few million members (if they can't own a gun anymore why pay dues...) to weed out a couple of bad seeds is going to make them even bigger? Yeah, I can just see all them gun-grabbers lining up to join because the NRA is now a "player."

Its really easy to be an absolutist with blinders on.
-12 year old gangbangers are going to get guns if they want them, why not make it legal for them to purchase them in a gunshop?
-If If a guy has just gotten out of prison for armed robbery, why shouldn't he be able to purchase a firearm legally also? I mean the laws aren't going to stop him from committing the crime again anyway.
-A man walks into a gunshop and places an order for 20 Glocks and states that he wants to arm his Posse, why should we be concerned?

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The only problem here is that 1st of all children are supposed to be managed by their parents! Hold both the child and their parents responsible for their actions and I have not problem. You walk into a store with your 12year old and they pay for their own gun, that works for me! 2nd of all is a guy has just got out of prison for an armed robbery then he has already payed his debt to society! If you don't want him to have access to his rights because say he is still a danger to society then he should not be released! If you really believe he IS going to commit the crime again then don't turn him loose! As for the posse comments, well last time I checked having a posse isn't against the law! If I want to outfit my own posse then you will know that I won the lottery and I am my shooting buddies are about to have a lot of fun! Further more if the man coming in is on the street then why shouldn't he be allowed to buy as many guns as he wants! If he is really a criminal then when he breaks the law he should be punished both quickly and severely and not released until he is no longer a threat.

There seems to be a lot of point-missing, here.

When somebody makes an absolutist statement, they scare the neutrals or the only-mildly anti-gun types. That hardens the anti-gun opinion.

The same goes for some post, here at TFL, along the lines of, "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out." Those middle-of-the-road types see such statements as Proof of Idiocy. They're then likely to agree that "Those people shouldn't have guns!"

Remember, it doesn't matter one little bit that you might be factually correct in some attitude or view of constitutionality or whatever. What's far more important to "The Cause" of all of us is the perceptions of others.

Just as the militant anti-gun crowd has carefully tailored their language to persuading voters, we face the same requirement if we would bring those voters to our side of the argument.

Art

Must tailor the message....

Every message has to be tailored, there's no question.

But if we hide the intent, then we are also not being honest--or effective.

Our intent--or at least my intent--is a sustainable civilization with a high general quality of life.

That can't happen when government and industry deign to herd us around, treating us like dairy animals, squeezing for the golden eggs every time they think they have an excuse (see http://throwingpebbles.com/content/view/139/43/ ... it's a series of four 1-hour videos by the BBC, very credible and fascinating).

And it can't happen when people are defenseless (or at least not in control of their defenses) against evil, however that evil is packaged (renegade government, rapists, murderers, etc.). It can't happen when the predators have the upper hand.

And it can't happen when we are always under threat of these eventualities.

An armed society is a polite society. You and I know that. We shouldn't hide behind incrementalism, parceling out whatever piece we think the populace is ready for. We should state the goal in understandable terms, and avoid exaggeration and falsification.

The only problem here is that 1st of all children are supposed to be managed by their parents! Hold both the child and their parents responsible for their actions and I have not problem. You walk into a store with your 12year old and they pay for their own gun, that works for me! 2nd of all is a guy has just got out of prison for an armed robbery then he has already payed his debt to society! If you don't want him to have access to his rights because say he is still a danger to society then he should not be released! If you really believe he IS going to commit the crime again then don't turn him loose! As for the posse comments, well last time I checked having a posse isn't against the law! If I want to outfit my own posse then you will know that I won the lottery and I am my shooting buddies are about to have a lot of fun! Further more if the man coming in is on the street then why shouldn't he be allowed to buy as many guns as he wants! If he is really a criminal then when he breaks the law he should be punished both quickly and severely and not released until he is no longer a threat.

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+1, all of it.

Lucky,
The Corkster agrees with you, maybe the post came out wrong. Talked to pawn shop owner last week,a 17 year old kid came in with a 1911, it had the serial numbers filed down, pawn shop owner called the police and who came and arrested the kid. Went to court, kid was let go. Nothing said about him being under 21 with a handgun, where the gun came from, how it was obtained it. Someday after he uses a firearm in a crime the anti's will blame the gun laws. The 1911 being without a number goes to the melt, most police confiscated weapons here go to a annual auction.
Cork

The NRA at one time had leadership that were not only absolutists, but effective and feared by the likes of Handgun Control, Inc.

Unfortunately, Neal Knox was apparently a threat to the likes of Wayne LaPierre and "The Winning Team" and was thrown under the bus for a more controllable Charlton Hesston.