AR trouble... Please help.

We are going to need more information - who made the barrel, how is the barrel marked, what type of ammo are you feeding it, etc.

The fact that the extractor is ripping the rim off the case suggests that you are getting good gas to the bolt and that the extractor spring is strong. Are you seeing any signs of overpressure on the empty case?

Off the top of my head, it sounds like your rifle is trying to extract before the case has shrunk away from the chamber walls. There are a number of things that can cause that, so got anymore info?

What kind of ammo is it also ? Steel case or brass?

Try different ammo. If that doesn't work I would say you are a candidate for Ned's Chamber Reamer.

I'm going to clean the thing and try again tomorrow (but it's only got 100 rds through it so I don't know how it could be sood dirty as to require cleaning to eject a shell, but I'm gonna anyway).

Click to expand...

Did you clean it prior to firing it? It isn't unusual for a gun to sit on the sales rack for awhile and to have a thick coating of some type of anti-rust agent in the chamber and barrel in a new rifle. That might explain the sticking. I'd definitely try giving the bore and chamber a good cleaning if you haven't yet.

Definitely try different ammo at well. Remington has the occasional QC issue like anyone else. Try at least one box of Federal XM193 or Winchester Q3131 (or Q3131A). Do you have the product code from the side of the Remington ammo box? Also try a box of Federal American Eagle or some similar .223 FMJ.

What should I look for? I know a little about what to look for, but I don't see anything upon inspection...

Click to expand...

Check the reloading forum and they should have some pictures that show you what to look for.

With .223 Remington, you shouldn't be having any overpressure issues though. What type of buffer and stock are you running? If you take the buffer spring out and measure it, how long is it? Try firing one round out of a magazine several times? Does the weapon lock back on an empty magazine.

You have some type of overfunction issue (the chamber is building up more pressure than it should and cycling faster than it can relieve that pressure). Common causes of this are tight headspace, rough chamber, or an improperly cut chamber. However, if there is crud in the chamber that can also cause the problem.

You might check the buffer and buffer spring as well. If they are really weak or the wrong type for the stock, they can sometimes create the same problem because the weapon cycles too fast. You should have a carbine buffer and spring for a telestock. A rifle buffer and spring for a fixed stock.

I had some ammo do this last time I shot. 2 of the cases split at the bottom slightly (probably overpressured) and one even blew the primer right out of the case. It caused the case to stick into the bolt face.

I had to drop the mag, lock the bolt back by hand, and pry the case out. I'd definetely try some different ammo and see what results you get.

I had the same type of problem with my Bushmaster. I took it to my local smith and he simply polished the chamber. Now, I dont know exactly what that job entails, but it only took him an hour to do, so I waited there. When he came from the back he handed me my gun and a box of Wolf ammo and said to go test it. No charge. Not a single problem since. you might want to try that. Average cost of chamber polishing is $30 around here. Cheap.

Remington brass tends to run a bit softer than other manufacturers and the cartridges are probably marked as .223 Remington and not 5.56 NATO right.

The brass cartridge cases are expanding into the 5.56 chamber faster than the extractor can overcome the expansion.
The Wilson barrel may on the maximum tolerance of the 5.56 NATO specifications and this may cause issues with other cartridges designated as .223 Remington and not 5.56 NATO.

Some things you can try.
1. If the whole rifle is Wilson manufactured, send it back with a detailed explaination of what has occurred and include the fired cases that gave you trouble.
2. Contact the builder and see if he can remedy the issue under a warranty agreement.
3. Diassemble the extractor from the bolt and see what if any buffer is installed under the extractor spring.
Current buffers are black in color, many builders still use the more common blue smurf buffers.
The black buffers increase extractor tension to a greater degree.
Coupling this buffer with a newer, stronger, chrome silicone extractor spring may be enough to overcome the chamber resistance and extract the .223 catridges reliably.
It won't hurt anything with 5.56 NATO cartridges either.HTH
I forgot, black buffers and chrome silicone extractor springs can be ordered from Brownells and probably Midway too.

Weak extractor spring?

(oops, Onmilo beat me to it...)

.223 and 5.56 nato are NOT!! the same round. I know someone will chime in and try to say they are but they are NOT!! the same. case dim. are different and i bet if you fired surplus ammo through it, it would function fine.:banghead: Military 5.56 nato brass is thicker and harder than civilian market brass. factory civ. brass is soft and will expand more in the chamber than military brass and a barrel marked .223 rem is chambered tighter than a barrel chambered 5.56 nato.

Have you fired any .22lr through a conversion kit? My buddy was having jams like crazy until he stopped using the Ciener conversion. Now his shoots anything he feeds it, no jams. He uses his 10/22 for .22lr now.

Are you seeing any signs of overpressure on the empty case?

Click to expand...

What should I look for? I know a little about what to look for, but I don't see anything upon inspection...

Click to expand...

Pictures:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=296462&highlight=pressure

Will installing a heavy buffer or a 9 millimeter buffer eliminate overfunctioning?

My RRA 16" middy does the same exact thing with Radway Green SS-109 British mil-surp. It rips a perfect chunk off the rim of the shell and usually needs to be tapped out of the chamber with a rod.

The gun functions normally every time with XM193, XM855PD and Winchester white box. By normal I mean no failures through 3K rounds or so.

I have close to 2K of the British stuff still sealed in ammo cans, in bandos on stripper clips that I can't use.

A heavy buffer will delay the cyclic some and may help if it delays enough. Have you already upgraded the extractor spring?

Have you already upgraded the extractor spring?

Click to expand...

No, I just stopped shooting the SS-109 and use the M193 instead.

Will upgrading the the extractor spring help? It is already strong enough to tear a chunk out of the rim. You think it isn't getting a deep enough hold and sliding down the rim a little?

I cleaned the chamber and bore thoroughly and am happy to report another 100 rounds down range but this time with no problems.

Click to expand...

Glad you are up and running with no problems!

Pretty much everything that someone listed in this thread could have been what was going on but the first thing one should do when haveing trouble with a newer AR is to clean the heck out of it , especially the chamber, and then lube the gun (pretty much everything but the chamber )
New guns tend to be pretty tight which puts them close to the point where they won't run correctly and all you need is a little dirt or grit or a couple of points running dry and something will hang up.
Basic troubleshooting in the AR is to clean and lube, look at mags and ammo . These things will cure many of the common problems .
Glad you got your gun going !

GoRon said:

Will upgrading the the extractor spring help? It is already strong enough to tear a chunk out of the rim. You think it isn't getting a deep enough hold and sliding down the rim a little?

Click to expand...

If it is bend the rim a little, upgrading the extractor spring might help. If it is ripping a good chunk out of the rim, then that probably won't solve your problem. I just suggested it first because it is the cheapest thing to try and doesn't hurt anything.

Using a heavier buffer may help with the Radway Green; but you may need to switch back when using lighter loads.

As I understand it the Radway Green just has a slightly different pressure curve (since it was designed for the L85) and tends to cycle a little faster than desirable in ARs. The buffer might fix it if you are running a standard buffer now. I would try an H-buffer before I went to a 9mm buffer though.

Eyesac said:

Still don't understand how it could get that dirty in 100rds...

Click to expand...

Could just be some residue in the chamber from manufacture that was assisting with the carbon buildup.

As I understand it the Radway Green just has a slightly different pressure curve (since it was designed for the L85) and tends to cycle a little faster than desirable in ARs. The buffer might fix it if you are running a standard buffer now. I would try an H-buffer before I went to a 9mm buffer though.

Click to expand...

I've hesitated to change anything because the gun has been flawless with all other ammo. I had heard about the faster powder theory before, also maybe harder brass allowing gas to get into the chamber and fouling it so bad it binds up the shells in the chamber. Between those and the H buffer suggestions I just chose to use other ammo.

Instead of selling off the ammo I've held on to it until I get a new upper for the rifle lower I put together. The RRA doesn't have a chrome chamber so I was thinking maybe that might help extraction on the new upper.

Will the rifle length gas system be better or worse if it is a powder issue?

By the way thanks for the feedback so far, this is something I've been meaning to get resolved for a long time.

Rifle length should be your best bet for function as long as you have adequate dwell time afterwards. Generally chrome-lined chambers (assuming they were cut right to begin with) are more tolerant than non-chrome lined in my experience. But you never know, sometimes just a little difference in the chamber will help with function - the RRA might be just a little friendlier or roomier and function better despite the lack of chrome.