.22 for self-defense...is a "man-stopper" really necessary?

All I can say is I don't want to be hit by one. Definitely ruin your day in the right spot.

One bouncer I knew took seven .25 rounds and proceeded to break both the shooters arms and legs.
A friend of mine took five .380 rounds including one through the jaw and proceeded to break the shooters arm disarm him and beat him nearly to death.
Of course both men had the advantage of being in the right, and very tough hombres.

Body hits from small caliber pistols often go completely un noticed till the fight is over.
If you are confident of a head shot in any situation be my guest.

.22 for self-defense...is a "man-stopper" really necessary?

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Only if you want a fair chance of actually stopping a man.

Body hits from small caliber pistols often go completely un noticed till the fight is over.
If you are confident of a head shot in any situation be my guest.

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Body hits from any fighting handgun caliber may go unnoticed. I have seen it happen with 45acp too.

In fact when I was hit with 7.62X39 ComBloc probably an AK 47 in Vietnam, I didn't know it until the Corpsman told me. Now that usually wasn't the case, either.

If 22 is all you have. Use it. But, If given a choice, I would not and have not gone below 38spl.

But don't believe that ANY HANDGUN caliber is a reliable man stopper. It just ain't true.

Good luck

Fred

I'd have to be REALLY screwed before I considered killing anybody. Don't want to kill anybody, but I recognize that it isn't really my choice.

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Then stick with your .22. Because if you don't want to do a head shot and you don't want to kill anyone in defense of self, family or property, you've picked the right calibre.

Jeff

Well, of course, one can't be confident, but the larger magazine capacity due to the smaller ammunition might at least help improve my chances, right?

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almost every .22 pistol has a 10 round mag... the rimmed case makes it tough to get mag to feed reliably... get a 9mm with a 17 rd cap mag

Doesn't make as much sense today as it did in the past to carry a 22 for self defense. There is an incredible array of compact guns that are easily concealed, versus the old days when you were stuck with a small Beretta or Walther in 22LR, 25ACP, or 32ACP. Look at the new Walther PPS, the Rohrbaugh, the small Kahrs,XD Subcomapct, etc. Maybe for beach use it might make some sense. If forced to use 22LR I would try the 60gr.SSS load or the CCI Quick shock.

Data group A

1. Sane people don't want to get shot
2. Sane people aren't the ones you worry about.
3. Crazy people, well, are crazy. Throw in hopped up on drugs, a guy who thinks killing you will mean he gets away clean and no jail time, hates you because of your religion, etc who knows where it ends.

Data group B

1. handguns suck, innacurate, hard to shoot, can only hold wuss cartridges
2. handgun level cartriges (9mm para, 45acp, etc) are wuss cartridges
3. .22 sucks even worse than above

May I suggest, if you are truely interested in throwing lead downrange, rather than getting a medium capacity .22 handgun, why not a pistol caliber carbine. At least in a carbine you will be using a platform that will allow novice to expert shooters to be more accurate. a 9mm is still only a 9mm, but in comparison to a .22 that is a big improvment with almost nill recoil

"Manstopper?"

The whole point of the exercise is in your statement referring to a "manstopper". The point is not to kill someone, but to get them to stop whatever is the threat to your life & limb. The professionals on this, and other gun sites, will almost always say to use the most power in a handgun that you can safely and accurately handle, usually somewhere between .380 and .45 caliber (and carry, of course). If that is a .22, so be it - but you had better be really, really good with it. The tired, but very true saying of a .22 in hand beats a .45 in the safe is still valid.
sailortoo
Semper Paratus (also)

almost every .22 pistol has a 10 round mag... the rimmed case makes it tough to get mag to feed reliably... get a 9mm with a 17 rd cap mag

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There's the FN Five Seven. Holds 20 and the ballistics on that fancy new cartridge they cooked up aren't too much better than a .22.

I think the CZ SP01 holds 19+1 .. I don't know any .22 pistols that will hold that .. There may be some but I am not familiar with any

a 22 is a good self defense round. thousands of corpses can't be wrong. 2 in the chest and 1 in the head. all done, finito!

Also, I'd really rather not shoot anybody in the head. I'd have to be REALLY screwed before I considered killing anybody. Don't want to kill anybody, but I recognize that it isn't really my choice.

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Well hospital records from the 60's indicated that you were seven times more likely to die from a .22 rimfire wound than from a larger caliber due to staph infection from germs being dragged into the wound by the bullet lubricant.

A friend died from a revaltively minor accidental .22LR wound after Staph infection set in.
Improments in antibiotics probably cut down the death rate until recent years were the antibiotic resistent strain of staph began killing people in an alarming manner after truly minor cuts and scrapes.

If you want the person you might have to shoot to survive, best use a FMJ pocket auto round like the .380. Full metal jacketed pistol bullets leave much cleaner wounds.
There are FMJ .38 special rounds now that I think of it.

It can get the job done, but better odds are with the bigger calibers.

One bouncer I knew took seven .25 rounds and proceeded to break both the shooters arms and legs.
A friend of mine took five .380 rounds including one through the jaw and proceeded to break the shooters arm disarm him and beat him nearly to death.

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Man, you run with a rough crowd.

You'll hear stories like this with any caliber. If a .22 is what you've got, use it. It's probably not going to be a one-shot stop, but you said you're part of the 'spray and pray' crowd, right?

Just don't expect anyone to jump backwards through a plate glass window and lose consciousness with your first shot because of the psychological shock of being hit with a .22. You can't rely on anyone responding the way you'd like them to.

I would get the heavest, highest-velocity ctg. you can find in .22 that's reliable if that's how you're going. I use CCI velocitor in my BUG, 40 gr at 1400fps. Obviously not the most powerful round you can shoot, but not something I'd want to get hit with, especially nine times.

You can't even bank on a head shot doing the job with a 22. I once transported a guy who had been shot in the temple at contact distance with a 22 pistol. His only complaint was that his neck was stiff. Poor dude didn't even have the benefit of a load of fight adrenalin. He'd been sitting in his car, minding his own business, when someone decided to ventilate him.

If you are seriously contemplating defending yourself with any lethal weapon you should already have decided that killing a human being is acceptable to you. Either respect your adversary enough to honor him with a sufficiently lethal tool or choose a less lethal means of defense.

Hoplophile, I would agree with Chieftain and not go below the .38 Special/9mm/.357 Magnum. Why? Penetration is one good reason. The .22lr gives its best performance from a carbine/rifle, not a handgun. To penetrate deeply enough to drop an attacker, I would recommend a larger caliber. Can a .22lr penetrate deeply enough? Yes, but if I am wagering my life on the outcome, a bigger handgun caliber makes more sense. This has been said before, but it merits repeating: bullets are not automatic death rays. They do not perform like Star Trek phasers. Remember this when you think about selecting a particular firearm for self-defense needs.


Timthinker

The .22LR is very poor for self defense for a number of reasons. To use a bulleted list;

1. It tends to produce narrow "ice-pick" like wound channels that reduce the probability of hitting a vital organ, nerve, or blood vessel.

2. .22LR ammunition doesn't have the greatest quality control, especially the bulk pack stuff. This can manifest itself as mis-shapen cartriges that woun't feed or squibs, but the most common defect is an incomplete application of the primer material to the rim, resulting in a failure to fire. *Click* is VERY bad when you need *Bang*.

3. The rimmed nature of the cartidge severely limits magazine capacity, I cannot think of any .22 pistol that accepts more than a 10 round magazine.

4. Most .22 pistols are just as big as centerfire pistols, whether revolvers or autos. The exceptions have their own flaws. For example, the Beretta Model 21 (Bobcat) doesn't even have an extractor, which means in the event of a misfire you have to tip up the barrel and extract the spent case with your fingers! The miniature NAA revolvers are difficult to shoot accurately and only hold five rounds.

As said before, unless it is all you have at the time there are far better choices than a .22 pistol. If it is your only gun I would suggest saving up to rectify that!

And don't fall into the trap of thinking that you can subdue someone with a gun. While a .22 is not as effective as a larger caliber, it is still quite capable of killing, even if you don't intend to.

Folks have been killed by .177 pellet guns and people have survived .308 rifle hits. Shot placement is key. After that, a significant caliber can help ensure that wound channel damages adjacent organs/bones/tissue or bleeds out quicker. I consider a .380 marginal and the minimum, but if a .22 is all you have it beats a 9-iron. If you get someone on drugs who feels no pain, you better slam them with something that will immobilize them right now in a place that will immobilize them right now or your next of kin can discuss the wisdom of your choice, even if the bad guy does bleed out and die later.

I tend to watch a lot of 'crime drama' shows on TV. Many times the lethal round is a 22.

But from what I gather it usually isn't instantaneous, taking a while for the victim to succumb. I like to think of the 22 as a miniature 357 magnum...same velocity.

But, larger bullets tend to shock the system more potently, potentially keeping the perp from fighting back as much. Again, just from what I've read of actual shootings and on TV.

The only time I recommend a .22 for self defense is if the shooter cannot handle anything bigger due to a disability of some kind, and even then it is just better than nothing.

Shooting to save your life isn't about lethality. It is about stopping the assault. If you shoot an assailant and you both live, that is a success. If you shoot an assailant and you both die, that is a failure.

You want to shoot him with something that will convince him to stop what he is doing. .22 is much more likely to kill him than stop him from killing you. I carry a .45, but it is what I practice with and it is not something I will leave behind because it isn't comfortable.

The best gun/cartridge combination is the one you will practice with and carry.

Don't want to kill anybody, but I recognize that it isn't really my choice.

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Whether or not you need a "man-stopper" isn't your choice, either.
Who might you shoot? The guy who is threatening your life. That's the same guy that gets to decide if you've shot him enough.
Convince him.

One more personal-testimonial on head shots with the .22 Long Rifle:

Two of the guys with whom I was going through high school decided to play a bit of "cowboys and indians"...with real .22 rifles. They were seeing "how close they could come" to each other, and one put up his head at the wrong moment and collected a .22 dead-center in his forehead. Oh, he died all right, but it took about six hours.

Anyone who CHOOSES a .22 when better choices are both usable and available, is not thinking clearly.