Knife edges, new alloys and ego.

I think it the skill set level of the user and tasks of the user.

I was visiting with some folks that used to own a BBQ joint now retired, a retired butcher, and a chef for a hotel.

-BBQ folks used Old Hickory knives, and Norton stones.
-Butcher used old Case CV, Old Hickory and later a Stainless knife and I forget the name, using Norton oil bath set up, steel and ceramic "steel".
-Chef uses this new stuff and the names I admit I am not familiar with and a Professional Sharpener keeps these up with Japanese water stones and pastes.


All of these folks cut for many hours during the day, with deadlines if you will.
All shared how they knew their knife, the knife fit them, even if it meant sanding say the OH for better ergonomics, and they knew how to sharpen, or in the case of the younger Chef, it was contract thing, and time was money, so grab another knife/knives, and this way the Professional Sharpener did not have to "fix" or "repair" as much as they would if the Chef "fixed" or "maintained incorrectly.

Older I get, the more I see/ feel folks are not being raised right in the regard of being exposed to, and therefore being passed onto some skill sets.

They so want to be matriculated into a community and they were not raised around guns, knives, and so much more, they "cling" and attach to ideologies and parrot what others in that community say and do.

Example:
Young man said he needed a small knife to use in a setting he was going to be visiting , that had restrictions.
-No longer than 3" closed.
-No lock
-Blades were limited to two, and no longer than 2 1/2" (best recall).

He was going to run to Wal-Mart, or Target, as he was in hurry and not have time to order a knife.

I suggested a SAK Classic SD, and these run about $7 or so.

He lit into me, as to how stupid I was.
So I added getting a Rapela "V" sharpener for $2 in the Fishing Dept.
He really lit into me then.

SAK was not "this" , "that" or "the other".

Sadly, Security took away his small Kershaw, it had a lock for one, and this was a $15 locking knife I am not familiar with.

The younger lady that was his instructor has a SAK Classic SD, so did everyone else he ran across.
He was totally shocked as to what all that knife could do.
His "community" said...just he had never investigated and verified for himself.
A "girl" had to show him the proper way to use a folding knife with no lock.

The Tourist, we are on the same page though to many it may not seem so.

This same fella had a Kershaw Leek with SV30, and I not sure what all he exposed it to...
He had no sharpeners, saving up to get some kind of electric dealie.

I declined to sharpen it, he insisted.

I used a 4" Norton [JB-134] Crystalon coarse/fine, dry, freehand.
I went to a Case 2 7/8" Hard Arkansas, again dry and freehand. Don't ask me the angle, it was not as low as I do my Case CV ones...

Happich Semichrome on the back of a legal pad to strop. I was not quite where I wanted to be, so I thumbtacked a pc of scrap blue jean denim and added Semichrome, and really polished that edge.

Then I did his Vic SAK Classic SD with just the Hard stone, and stropped it.

I beg to differ that today's knives are better than grandparents used.
It has to do with the grandparents having skill sets, times were hard , money was tight, and these folks used the proper tool for tasks.

They approached a problem and used the tool they had - instead of the physical tool was gonna do it for them.

30-30, and the deer season run with squirrel and rabbit, and being able to "bark" a rabbit or squirrel.
Single shot 20 ga shotgun, and break action, remove the shell and insert slug or pellet load for critter that presented itself.
It does not matter what shell is chambered, the other critter presents itself and one has to change loadings...
*grin*

in the wilderness, I carry: a Benchmade (large) Ascent in ATS-34, a Sog NW Ranger, and a Gerber sport axe.

as for EDC rotation, I tend to carry Benchmades in ATS-34 or 154CM. I have Old Henry's and Sodbusters in my collection, but I don't perceive them to be as useful as a modern folder, with a modern lock mechanism. Steel is secondary to ergonomics.



For the record, my deer rifle is an old Marlin in 35 Remington, with iron sights.

I know one thing , I could thoroughly enjoy sitting down to dinner and conversation with both SM and Tourist at the same time. I have a strong feeling that would be some great conversation.

if either of you are ever in Vegas....look me up.

JTW Jr.,

You are most kind sir.

Truth is, I am no big deal, never will be, and do not want to be.
My role is to pass forward as passed to me, and the only thing I can pass forward are my life experiences and observations.

I am not ashamed to admit I am as dumb as a brick, nor am I ashamed to say "I don't know".

The Tourist can hand me a very nice chef knife, have me stand in front of his work area with his professional sharpening methods and I would say, "I cannot even spell the name of this knife, much less pronounce it and I have not idea what some of this stuff is you use, much less know how to use it properly".

This does not bother me at all.
I would grab a stool, coffee, tea, or Dr. Pepper, pencil and paper and watch him do what he does, listen and be educated.

There is no absolutes in this journey called "life", except if something takes "life" as we know it, it will cease someday.
So in essence, I am dying, and this process started the split second after I drew my first breath.
Being disposable if you will, so I pass forward what little I have experiences with as I will be tossed aside some day.
This is why it is so important we have to pass forward.
I get tossed aside, and someone else is snagged and the perpetuation continues.

Knives, steels, alloys, blade shapes, sharpening...all this concerns me as does other life skill sets.

One cannot buy skill and targets - me

You cannot buy the knives and tools and be The Tourist.
Just because one has his tools, and the knives he has does not make them a Professional Sharpener and his other talents and gifts.

One cannot buy a Norton coarse/fine Crystalon or India stone, a Old Hickory Paring knife, or Case with CV blades, or Old Timer from yesteryear with 1095 carbon steel and just by the mere possession of these, sharpen one as I , or others can.

Grandparents could not buy a 30-30 and hit a deer because they bought one.
Nor could they dress it out with a Case Trapper with CV because they had this knife.

No more can a person buy a Savage .308 and carry a Emerson.

Can't buy it - gotta earn it. - me

This is why some of my Mentors that really did hustle on a trap field, took the cigar box with money using a H&R Topper.
Why they used a old hardware store pump gun, maybe a High Standard, or Sears Roebuck brand, and took the cigar box of money shooting skeet.

Oh they could flat shoot a Model 12, Ithaca 37, Browning Superposed...
still they hustled, and took the money from folks that bought these guns, and used the simple guns.

Knives are the same way to me...
Then again I am as dumb as brick...

If you want to know what is best in he woods go see the guys that live or make their living there, don't ask at a place in the city that sell stuff for the outdoors. If you want to know what is best all around in the kitchen see what a chef that makes his living working with knives uses, same with the butcher/meat cutter, or to bone or skin citters ask at the packing house.
Kinda the same way with a lot of things, footwear for example, in the hill's see what the loggers, packers and outfitters wear unless you plan on staying on groomed trails. Lots of fancy dance products out there and some are a fantastic product maybe Superior in many ways to what jus might be felt as your run of the mill stuff but when everything is taken into consideration they may not be the best choice for everyday or prolonged usage in the enviroment they are proposed and sold for.

Nothing fancy here,plain knives work.I have a S30V Native and it is a great knife,but....

My woods combo....large stockman and folding hunter.


On the street,medium stockman and slimline gunstock trapper...


"Grandpas" 1095 works fine thank you.In the woods I just slip a pocket sharpener with fine ceramic sticks in my pocket and I am good to go.

Don't need anything fancy or high tech to get the job done.Working man's knives have been around forever,and civilization came along just fine.

If I raise the hood on mom's early 90's car, the thing wrong is the engine is in sideways...
Maybe that is why the rear tires won't get scratch?? *wink*

My truck is one year newer, the engine is installed "right" and the rear tires will burn rubber if I hit the gas pedal.

It has been too long since I did points, and condensers...and I used to do these every 6,000 to 10,000 miles when I did plugs.
I could change points, plugs, wires and condensers easy back in the day...

My truck now, will go 30,000 miles and this "tune up" is basically plugs and wires, with a new coil.

Back in the day, the tune up was less money, and lasted maybe 10K miles, today I go 30K and it is expensive with all the CPU stuff.

Newer vehicles? Sheesh!!!
One model one has to raise the front end, turn the wheel, remove wheel to access oil filter?
*uh*


Oh I can polish, technically with my background the term Master Polisher applies, I have done a few Colts and S&Ws for instance so those craftsman did the bluing that looked like the old factory Colt and S&W bluing.
I have not done some of that in awhile, still I recall , and have done some finishing and polishing by hand since and still do ...

Just even a Master Polisher, will share, one can always learn, and improve, they had better...as one never truly masters anything in life. *yep*

What some today don't understand, or will accept is there are no Holy Grails, No Magic Talismans, and No Absolutes.

Destinations are arrived at by various routes.

Todd A posted pics of Old Timers.

Both of those knives will, as they have as history will bear out:
Clean game and fish, make shelter, start a fire, do food prep...

Both can be sharpened various ways:
Norton stones, Arkansas stones, Sears Roebuck stones, Montgomery Ward Stones, Emery Paper, Shrade portable steel , Smith's crock stick, Raplea portable fillet knife sharpener, kitchen steels...

And stropped using John Deere Green paint on a smooth pc of wood (chromium in the green is of high content) Leather belt , piece of leather plain, or with Semichrome, red , green, black, white, green rouges, added....

Stropped using ones bare hand, boots, or blue jeans or...

Both knives have a history of the above.

Today, the same knives can be sharpened with Japanese water stones and polished with various pastes, including diamond paste.
And when sharpened, will clean game and fish, make shelter, start a fire, and do food prep, and...

Some things just "are" no matter how darn old one gets. *grin*

You cannot buy the knives and tools and be The Tourist.

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Nope, but I can't send every knife to him to be sharpened either. So, now that I got my new bandsaw the #1 next thing to buy is an Edge Pro and to get better at sharpening. Like JTW says the easiest way for a knifemaker to sharpen is with the grinder but until I find a jig that will let me do that with precise angles I'll use the Sharpmaker or hopefully an Edge Pro. I can't give a knife to a customer that has an unknown angle for an edge and expect him to be able to sharpen it.

Properly sharpening a knife made of modern steel - that's one of the many skills that I'm working on.

Each of us has a skill set. Some of us perpetually expand our set, some allow their skills to waste away. All skills are useful in one way or another, many overlap, and no one can say that one skill is better than another without knowing the situation.

I'm going to keep adding skills 'til I run out of time. I'm not going to let my ego get in my way.

Just an FYI :I tried those cardboard wheels , they work great for re-sharpening , not so great from going from no edge at all to sharp edge.

Don , I am going to get a tilting platen for the Bader ( Rob Frink ) , this way I can tilt the platen back and use it just like the sharpmaker , but powered

This topic really makes me sad to contemplate. I am a teacher by profession, I currently teach in a small Native village in Alaska. The things that are NOT being passed down from one generation to the next are appalling, it's not just a symptom in the mainstream Hollywood/MTV culture. On second thought, maybe it is: Perhaps that's the culture that's destroying all others it meets.

There is a whole world of culture up here that is disappearing because the young aren't willing to take the time to learn what the Village Elders have to teach them. Living in harmony with the land is a thing of the past in pretty much every culture I've seen up here, they've been subverted by the convenience of modern-day life. Hunting is no longer about bringing in food to ascertain the survival of family, it's about getting out of school so you don't have to do your assignments for a day. It's about the thrill of killing whatever you can see using an AK-47 because frankly it's a rush to kill something. I've seen a kid throw a knife away because it was dull so his parents would buy him a new one that was sharp.

I know I'm supposed to have hope for the future, that's actually why I went into teaching: To help bring that hope. I wonder if it hasn't died in me. I won't give up yet, I know y'all won't either.

alaskanativeson wrote:

This topic really makes me sad to contemplate. I am a teacher by profession, I currently teach in a small Native village in Alaska. The things that are NOT being passed down from one generation to the next are appalling, it's not just a symptom in the mainstream Hollywood/MTV culture. On second thought, maybe it is: Perhaps that's the culture that's destroying all others it meets.

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I agree with your well written reply.

The Tourist, alaskanativeson, JTW Jr, Valkman, others and I are on the same page.

It may not seem so , to many, and that is sad as is reflects what alaskanativeson wrote and put in quotes above.

The Tourist professionally sharpens his customers knives with professional tools in his shop , and I lean up against a fence post in a field , and freehand sharpen a CV or carbon steel knife - and we are still on the same page.

I have some good knives, but fear to buy expensive ones since I seem to lose things.

Pocket knives on rotation for daily carry include a Buck, a Puma, a smallish Gerber Wave and a CS Voyager.

All of these serve me well. I do know how to use benchstones, crocksticks, steels and strops. I even have a power strop.

The big things, IMO, are getting the technique down and developing patience.

There is nothing I do to a knife that you cannot do, starting now

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and kinda sad, like a hundred other things, guys want a sharp knife but won't take the time to learn how do do their own.

This is not easy, the knives are gone, the people have all passed , the memories are sentimental...

Buddy of mine was born in South Africa, and later went to the UK.
He knew I liked the Case Barehead Slimline Trapper, with CV blades, and yellow handles.
He liked them as well...

Same industry, just he in the UK, sometimes in SA, me in the Southern USA, and communicated quite often, and we would meet in Jamaica.

Sitting at the Burger Hut down at the beach at 3am I said I would like a Slimline Trapper, except 1" shorter.
His comment was, a 3 1/8" Slimline Trapper would indeed be quite nice.
We agreed a lanyard hole would be nice, discussed handles and ...

He knew a fella in South Africa, and he made custom knives, and these knives were indeed custom made.

Genuine Ivory, and Olive wood, from Israel a mutual buddy of ours had secured.

He sent me the Ivory one first, a total surprise and I was shocked, stunned and ....humbled.

With the knife came this "Scottish Tablet", a sharpening stone.
It was round, the color of Butter Rum, and about 2" in diameter and 1/2 thick.
Translucent to the light, reminding me of a Butter Rum Life Saver, with no hole, just bigger.

This was akin to a Case Moonstone.

So another trip to Jamaica was coming up, and this gentleman is with my buddy.
He carried himself well, just he was only about 5'3 or 5'4" and maybe 120 pounds.
This was the fellow that made this knife.

Quick, fast, and had served in civil wars down home.
When I see a pic of Awerbuck, I think of this gentleman.

He had brought my other knife, a surprise to me, this Olive wood handled one
He had finished everything buy his sharpening.

He was poetry in motion!
Freehand, simple stones, and simple strop and that knife was sharp!

He asked to see the knives I had and I the Ivory one, my Peanut and Trapper, he checked them, complimented me (?) and then he asked to see my buddies knives.
Now my lady partner had new Peanut, still in the box and he wanted me show him how I did with the simple stones I had. (!)

We got a knife on of our party had and he sharpened that Old Timer, and then grinned, as he whittled on some nuts in a assortment.
This is not easy, on some varieites of nuts.
He did this with a peach seed, and did a monkey for my lady partner out of peach seed.

We got with the locals that worked the property and used machetes a lot...we watched them sharpen their tools, with simple stones...

Just knives / edged tool from various makers, and users from various locations in the world, using various sharpening stones and tools...

We are a common people, only separated by language, and water.

Siete la lumaca del giardino del diavolo.

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"You are the snail in the garden of the devil"

Well that's an interesting phrase.

Dave McCracken said:

I have some good knives, but fear to buy expensive ones since I seem to lose things.

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I told the same story once. When I was 14 or so I had a favorite sporting goods store not far from my home. It was called Sports Stop, it was a small shop owned by the guy who ran it. It wasn't a big chain so obviously it's gone out of existence now but I really enjoyed the shop. I'd stop in as often as I could even if it was just to look around. Guy (the owners name as far as I knew) never seemed to mind.

For a while I was buying a new pair of I Ski or Foster Grant sunglasses every week or so. Guy asked me why, I said I kept losing them. Now I understand that sometimes you have no control over losing things (as may be the case with what Dave is talking about in his quote) but in my case it was simply due to being a careless teenager. Guy told me I should consider a really good pair of sunglasses. He showed me a pair of Ray Ban Aviators (this was before Ray Ban was bought out by Luxottica so they still made truly top-end optics then) that I fell in love with. When he told me the price was $45 I nearly died. When I told him I could never spend that much on a pair of sunglasses that I'd just lose he taught me a good lesson. He showed me his pair of Aviators that he'd worn as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. He still wore them. His lesson about spending more on something quality taught me the larger lesson (which, of course, was what his whole intent was, I'm sure) of caring for your equipment and not being so lazy and careless.

Yes, I still have that pair of Aviators. They're in their original case sitting in a drawer. I've decided that the G-15 green lens isn't as nice as the Maui Jim HCL bronze, but I still have them.

ill have to argue the better than anything your dad ever had
he probably had some high carbon (not stainless) blades that are way harder