.22lr vs tire

good thing 90% modern engine blocks are made of aluminum!

not very many engines floating about are heavies.

A regular old 223 rem 55 grain FMJ will shoot through a 3/8th" thick steel plate at 100 yards....I assure you a 30-06 would make a mess of a cast iron or an aluminum block.

Depends on the tire. i run 31x10.50 TSL super swampers (bias, not radial, therefore much thicker) i can run over stuff that would punch a hole through normal tires and not worry about it.

Assuming that it hit the sidewall, you're still looking at a hole only slightly bigger than what a nail would make. The tire would deflate at a rate slightly higher than a nail puncture and the tire could still be driven on for quite a ways before it deflated enough to be a problem. It would be different with 10-20 punctures, but the scenario I'm thinking (car is moving, shooter stationary) probably only allows enough time to hit a tire 2-3 times.

So I guess my answer is no.

ETA: but a definite yes on a bicycle tire, provided you can hit it.

The 30-06 AP would zip through an engine block like butter. That's why they call them AP's. It will shoot through RR tank cars. The RR does not take kindly to shooting holes in their RR cars and I don't recommend it. A 22LR will bounce off. The RR will hunt you down if they can and you will pay damages. Those could be substantial. Used to be a big problem.

It is pretty amazing what 30-06 AP ammo will penetrate. We tested this and as I recall it penetrated 1/2" steel plating and almost penetrated more.

Tires; I feel certain a LR from a rifle would puncture a normal sized car or truck tire through the sidewall within 50 yds. 22's often bounce off of things like refrigerators or just put a big button on the side. Try it. Be careful however and the angle is important. You want to be as perpendicular as possible to the surface you are trying to shoot through.

You also have to worry about run-flat tires now. Even if you do puncture the tire, the thief might still be able to drive over 100 miles at highway speed with no additional damage to the tire.

There is also the question of use of deadly force to prevent Grand Theft. Some states (such as TX I believe) allow it. Other's don't.

This does sound like a perfect experiment for the guys over at box o' truth.

Hmmm

5.7x28 I imagine would reliably puncture tires.

Regular 22lr, will reliably bounce off.

How bout 17 HMR. Not a real strong bullet but...

good thing 90% modern engine blocks are made of aluminum!

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It's actually about 50/50 (for current production). If you include cars already on the road (but still modern), than iron blocks probably have an edge.

Another "Junior Moment."

Seconding siglite's observation:

I would NOT recommend a .22LR for trying to take out a tire. When the first round bounced back at me and embedded in a tree, I considered it a fluke. When the second one bounced back at me and dinged off the steel bench, I packed up my crap and left, convinced that I was entirely too stupid to be shooting that day because I fired twice.

(this was many moons ago, when I was young and stupid. Now I'm not young anymore, just stupid.)

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Including the young part, the many moons ago, and the stupid part.

This was an uninflated tire out of a rifle at ummm, oh, say, sixty yards, .22 LR.

Clipped a branchlet off a tree next to me.

Fired another shot, noticed puff of dust near me, got a sudden rush of brains to the head, and quit that nonsense.

It is also not a good idea to shoot at railroad tracks. With anything. You hit the bottom part of the rail, and the projectile skips up the web of the track, curves around the top part of the rail, and comes back at you. I know this because it happened to a "dear friend of mine who shall remain nameless."

I shall leave it to the astute reader to guess who that "dear friend of mine who shall remain nameless" was.

"Know your target and what lies in front of it" echoes in my mind.

shot a tire unsucessfully with a 38 once

i would have taken out the 12 guage. one shot boom. No more front windshield.

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Never actually shot at a windshield, have you? My department does extensive tactical training with junk cars to test just those kinds of myths. At 15 yards, slugs make a slug sized hole, buckshot makes a bunch of little buckshot sized holes, and birdshot bounces off. Otherwise, the windshield pretty much stays intact. It definitely does not disappear. Even buckshot pretty much bounces off once you get out past 25 yards. It's mostly because of the angle of the windshield and the laminated construction. They're a lot tougher than you think, Hollywood notwithstanding.

On to the original topic, shooting through the sidewall, most centerfire pistol rounds will easily go through the sidewall of a tire at close range (>50 yards). Most tires have Kevlar woven into them. You'll put a caliber sized hole in the tire, but if it has any self sealing characteristics it stops itself pretty easily. I would definitely not choose .22 lr.

Tires are pretty tough targets for most handgun rounds, soft lead shot from shotguns, and even some centerfire rifle rounds. A suppressed .22 would likely be used with subsonic velocity ammo, making a canned .22 not a good choice for defeating auto tires.

Straight on or straight away, you're shooting at the steel belted tread.

Just now had to try it.

Sears roadhandler 1.95x70Rx 14 off the rim set at 75 yards. Federal bulk ammo. Three shots into the tread and all three penetrated.

Surprised me. Live and learn.

Well, there is a lot of variables involved.

First we have varying rubber types. Hard rubbers through softer ones.

Then there is the belt material. How strong are the belts?

Of course another important factor is actual tire thickness. Think about some off-road tread designs, and how thick the tread thickness may be.

Angle of the shot is important. If you hit the center of the tire, you are going straight in, but hit the top or bottom while facing the tread area, and you will be going through more rubber.

Also, if the tire is spinning at any decent speed, the slow velocity of the .22lr will cause the energy to skew out as it tries to penetrate forward. That's not going to help it.

Just a guess, but I don't think inflation would change penetration a whole lot. If a tire is at 40psi, that's only a few pounds actually working against the bullet impact area. If the pressure prevents rubber deformation to any extent, it may even help the penetration.

As you would imagine, there are probably many shots that would stop a 22, and many where it may get through. I guess the idea here would be that if you want to penetrate it when you shoot it, use something more adequate than a 22.

I would NOT recommend a .22LR for trying to take out a tire. When the first round bounced back at me and embedded in a tree, I considered it a fluke. When the second one bounced back at me and dinged off the steel bench, I packed up my crap and left, convinced that I was entirely too stupid to be shooting that day because I fired twice.

(this was many moons ago, when I was young and stupid. Now I'm not young anymore, just stupid.)

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Thanks for sharing. I can relate (in other situations). Post gave me the best laugh of the week.

The 30-06 AP would zip through an engine block like butter.

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Yes, most blocks are aluminum. It would not go all the way through an iron block. Unless you have shot a real iron block and it did, which i doubt.

it has a 100% chance of going through one side of the block,(at 90 deg.) losing tremendous energy and pinging around in there before stopping. More than likely it will hit the crank, connecting rod, something else, and get deflected.

ANY center fire.....

guess so, as long as that does not include the 25 Anemic Colt Pistol

Sorry, I consider this bad advice:

You want to be as perpendicular as possible to the surface you are trying to shoot through.

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Unless you absolutely, positively know the bullet will go through, it is more likely to come right back at you. (Angle of incidence = angle of reflection... and if angle of incidence is 90 degrees...)

I realize what the poster is saying, that maximum chance of penetration occurs at 90 degrees, but that's also the angle of most dangerous bounce-back.

Say, has it occured to anyone to ask what the heck a non-LEO is doing trying to stop a fleeing car with a defensive weapon?

Maybe I missed it.

And if it's coming at you, what chance do you have of stopping it in its tracks with an engine shot, even with a .416 Rigby or a .500 Nitro Express or a .50 BMG?

Zilch.

Even if wrecking the engine locks up the wheels.

If it's far enough away to disable the car, and make it stop enventually without hitting you, then it would seem you have plenty of chances to get the heck out of the way.

Seems to me that aspect of this thread is sorta dumb. Shooting tires as a foolish excercise at the county dump is one thing (dangerous), but shooting at at a fleeing car is probably illegal as heck.

I guess the most you could do in the "fleeing" situation is to mark the car with several holes in the trunk so the LEOs can ID it later.

Still most un-cool.



There, I said it and I ain't takin' it back. --230RN

Even if the AP 30-06 doesn't go all the way through the steel or aluminum block, it'll penetrate far enough to render the engine inoperable within a short time. Water jackets, pistons, oil pans, heads, cylinder walls, ECUs, etc. all work at a less than optimum performance level when they have holes punched through them!

Say, has it occured to anyone to ask what the heck a non-LEO is doing trying to stop a fleeing car with a defensive weapon?

Maybe I missed it.

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Probably a purely hypothetical situation posed by the OP just like all the 'what caliber for ____' & 'stopping power of ____' & 'What to do when the S hits the F' threads that are rampant around here.

I'm not picking on you, 230RN, but I propose that you may be taking this thread much too seriously.

I was there when a friend tried to disable a car tire with a point blank shot with a .45 acp. The air did not exit the tire very fast, kind of surprised me. The drunk that had just assaulted two people with a tire iron was able to drive a good mile and a half before the tire went flat and another half mile or so before the tire came off the rim.

Yes, most blocks are aluminum. It would not go all the way through an iron block. Unless you have shot a real iron block and it did, which i doubt.


shot very lil ap 30.06 i see
get some try it be surprised

Actually, I've had put a lot of M2 AP through Garands over the years. My father bought around 1000rds of the stuff years ago, and for a while, it was the only 30-06 ammo we had save a couple boxes of hunting ammunition. I've shot it at about every kind of steel plate we've got on the farm and it'll do some damage, though I must admit I've never fired at an engine block. I maintain, though, that it would do some undesirable things to an engine block, iron or aluminum.

sorry was commenting to the other guy if he doesn't think ap wiill go through a block he is very mistaken