? about guns on a roadtrip across America

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coosbaycreep

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In about two weeks, I plan on going on a roadtrip across the U.S. to see the rest of the states I haven't been to yet. Some of the states/cities I'll be visiting that I know have more restrictive gun laws than the great state or Oregon: CA, NV, MD, Chicago, D.C., VA, NJ, NY, etc. I'll be in every state on the east coast, and will probably drive through the southern U.S. on the way back.

I know CA and most of the Northeast has crappy gun laws, but I don't know how bad they are, and what kind of gun I can carry, if any at all.

I would prefer to take a handgun with me (high point .45, it's cheap and has no sentimental value, and only holds 9 rounds of ammo so hi-cap laws aren't a concern). If the handgun is a no-no, then my next choice is a Mossberg 500 12ga PGO. I'm not sure on the legalities of PGO shotguns in some of the communist states either though. If both the mossberg and handgun are illegal somewhere, my last choice would be my NEF 12 ga. single shot. The only problem with that one though, is the fact that it would draw more attention if anyone seen it, because I cut the barrel down (18.75, so it's still legal), did a lousy job of refinishing the wood, and painted all the metal parts with some crummy flat black BBQ paint. Even though a single shot is one of the most PC friendly guns, mine looks like a homemade bank robber gun, and I would just assume not have to worry about people calling the cops thinking the barrel's too short or something. If a single shot is my only legal option for the trip, I would probably just get another one at a pawn shop with the mile long barrel.

I've also considered taking a 442 or keltec P32 because of how small and light they are (my car is super tiny and will be loaded with too much camping crap anyway). Would either of these be subject to laws that my other guns might not be?

I'm not real bright on legal jargon (and I'm kinda lazy), or else I'd just search every state's gun laws myself.

So which one of these guns would be legal to take with me in all the places I plan on going? If I take the handgun, does it have to be dissasembled or locked or anything? What if I take a revolver or shotgun instead, because there's no way to dissasemble that easily? Will any of these places require that I keep it unloaded? Is there any restrictions on the kind of ammo you can carry? (I read something on this board saying that hollow points are illegal in NJ is why I ask).

I know most campgrounds don't allow firearms either, but what about motels? As long as I'm discreet about it, is there any problems with taking my gun in the motel room with me at night?

I'm fairly ignorant of the Heller decision too. Am I allowed to have a handgun in D.C. now, or do you have to have a permit or something? I would assume long guns are legal there without a permit though, right?

Ideally, I would be transporting one of my pistols in the trunk of my car, loaded. I'd kinda like to take the keltec or S&W, because both are great for open carry while hiking, but since I already know that OC is either illegal or frowned upon in a lot of these places, I can go without, and just leave my gun in the trunk. I would just prefer to have some sort of gun with me for defense, even if I have to get it out of my trunk first. I just don't want to have to worry about breaking some kind of stupid law because I have a gun.

Also, I don't have any criminal record, and I don't have a conceal carry permit....unfortunately.

I'm also bound to get pulled over numeous times, as I am young and scroungy looking, and my car is old and looks like crap, so I definitely want to stay on the right side of the law.

thanks
 
I think a pump action shotgun is legal in every state a single shot is with the same requirements.
So legaly the two should be no different most places. There is a few places like MA that have capacity limits on a shotgun magazine before it becomes another catagory (5 rounds I believe.)
In IL, MA and I think NJ you need a state license just to legaly have possession of a firearm. FID, FOID etc. They are the worst in the nation.

Then of course some other places have restrictions on pistols or require pistol permits etc. Some are restrictive on pistols but have few laws on long arms. So that would probably be the biggest thing to research.
Only a handful of places can you legaly 'carry' them with you in the vehicle nevermind loaded with no license, permit, residency etc

However a federal law allows you to pass through any state with firearms secured in the trunk in a locked container (unloaded) no matter what thier laws are without being subject to thier laws. The problem with that is once that state becomes a destination you visit rather than one you are passing through you must abide by thier laws. So if you are simply driving through, and only stop for gas or maybe even to sleep you could argue it as a defense (though best not to be caught.) That transport method is however also legal and even more extreme than required in most states as well without the federal protection, so is only a concern in the worst places in the nation.

Some states like Texas you can carry both the pistol and the long gun loaded in the vehicle actualy with you with no license, but not out of the vehicle (long gun varies). Pistol must stay concealed even inside. Other places like Vermont you can carry openly or concealed with no permit or license whatsoever.
Some places like IL it is a crime to even possess ammo without a state issued license.


Many places have transportation methods that vary. Some allow the magazine loaded and not the chamber. Some require different things for handguns and long guns. Some do not allow loaded at all but allow them in the passenger area of the vehicle.
Some generaly require they be locked in the trunk . Others require certain firearms be locked in a locked container and in the trunk. Some just a locked container.


Clearly your right to bear your arms in 'free' america will be infringed. In 90%+ of the US though the pump action in the trunk will be perfectly legal for transport, and then you can take it into wherever you stay at night (can be more complicated if that is in your vehicle.) The only exceptions are the few states that require a license just to legaly have a firearm. Like I said IL, MA, and NJ spring to mind. Other portions of the East Coast may be bad as well. CT, NY (NYC is one of the worst), RI, MD, etc
Some of the other states have laws you wouldn't expect. Like Kansas is quite restrictive for a state in that region of the nation. Though locked in a container in the trunk things should still be fine.

Of course a firearm unloaded and locked away is not going to provide you with much protection on the road or at stops when you are most vulnerable as a tourist with out of state plates and a lost attitude. It may bring piece of mind where you sleep at night though.

If you want to know exactly what states you can have varying degrees of more protection while traveling you need to research the specifics of every state individualy. I have done so for a good portion of the US, but many single states alone require quite a lengthy post just to cover. Some have crazy restrictions on handguns, but few on long guns. Some are more restrictive on carry of long guns but allow a pistol carried in a certain way (like loaded and holstered in glovebox in AZ.) While a neighboring state can have the opposite law (CA you can legaly, though shouldn't have an unloaded pistol with ammo beside it openly on the seat beside you, but it could be a felony to conceal it, even in the glovebox and unloaded as an out of state resident.)
Then the law and what local LEO will tolerate without harassing you can be different in some places.

In the trunk and in a locked case is the easiest if you don't want to learn the specifics of every state.
 
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CA, NV, MD, Chicago, D.C., VA, NJ, NY
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Great selection of places, poor selection for pro-2A.

With a handgun, you're going to get arrested and charged with a felony in 3 of them: Chicago, D.C., and NY.

You need a permit to posses in three places. Chicago hasn't issued permits since '82, D.C. I have no idea what they do for non-residents, and NY you'll be arrested for possession of a handgun without a valid state permit.

I think NJ, you're OK, as pistol registration there only applies to those purchasing guns within the state.

In addition, 4 of those places you've mentioned have AWBs of sorts. In CA and DC, no mags over 10 rounds, period. In NJ, no mags over 15 rounds, and in NY, no mags over 10 rounds unless they are pre-1994.

The loaded shotgun in the car suggestion is kind of bad too, as I know NYS doesn't allow loaded long guns in the car and I'm guessing neither does DC, NJ, Chicago, or CA.

Either scrap your gun plans or scrap your travel plans.
 
I'm guessing neither does DC, NJ, Chicago, or CA.
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Loaded in CA it is illegal. However case law has made loaded not include shells on a shell holder attached to the firearm, just in the magazine or chamber. So technicaly it is not a violation of 12031 to have an unloaded shotgun with ammunition in a side saddle even in the vehicle with the occupant.
12025 which sets a lot of the storage requirements of concealed firearms also only covers handguns. So long guns technicaly can be out of sight legaly without being locked up.




However when I mentioned transport earlier just to clarify to the OP I meant unloaded and in the trunk in a locked case for all states. CA only requires handguns that are concealed be in the trunk OR in a locked container with the trunk counting as a valid locked container and they don't have to be in another container. Clearly most do not wish to transport them openly in CA, but the often cited transportation requirements of 12025 apply to concealed handguns.
Some other states though require firearms both handguns and rifles not only be in the trunk, but in a locked container in addition and unloaded.


So a pump action shotgun in a locked container and unloaded is your best bet. That is legal to transport through any state in the nation under federal protection. However that protection goes away once you are visiting the state as a destination.
That transport method is still legal however in most states, and more than necessary in most, except those that require a license just to legaly have a firearm.
IL, and MA require a license even for mere possession of firearms, so you would not want to stop in either state. A handful of other states like NY are similar with handguns. So if you bring the handgun in addition to the more widely legal friendly shotgun you also shouldn't visit them.

The 10 round limit mentioned by Yamato is also important. Felony assault weapon laws exist in some places if you have a magazine that can hold over a set number of rounds. The lowest on handguns I am aware of is 10 rounds. Those laws will not be an issue with the pump action you mentioned.

I also mentioned MA has a 5 round limit on shotguns, even pump action shotguns before they are classified differently. However since you need a FID license just to have a gun in the state at all it is best to just drive right on through that state with the shotgun in a locked container in the trunk and unloaded and not worry about adhering to thier garbage.

So I repeat, locked in the trunk and in a locked container unloaded the pump action shotgun will be legal in most of the USA and legal to pass through the few states it is not without visiting.
You only need to skip a couple states with that setup.
 
Here in town, you can have a longarm (a legal one, of course) anywhere in the vehicle, but it MUST be unloaded. I'd say keep it unloaded, don't cause trouble, and you're good.
 
Good luck on your trip. Leave the guns home and you won't have to worry!
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Unfortunately, that's what I do when we travel. If I pay attention to what's going on around me and stay away from known "bad areas", the odds are far better my gun will get me in trouble with local authorities that help me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to at least take a gun where ever I go, but in the real world that's just not practical, at least for me. I don't want to spent all my time worrying if I'm legal, what if I'm stopped or have an accident in NY of DC? When I'm away from the car is the gun secure? Etc., etc., etc. Life if full of compromises, this is one of them.

Just leave the guns at home and enjoy your trip!!:)

(If you do decide to take it with you, please be careful!! I read a story recently about a fellow who had a gun in his car and had an accident in NY. The last I heard, he was in danger of doing real jail time for a weapons felony!)
 
I am not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet....

In IL, MA and I think NJ you need a state license just to legaly have possession of a firearm. FID, FOID etc.
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You only need the FOID if you're an Illinois resident, which the OP is not. However, it is illegal for anyone to transport a loaded firearm anywhere in Illinois. Unload it and put it in a case in the trunk, you'll be legal.

With a handgun, you're going to get arrested and charged with a felony in 3 of them: Chicago, D.C., and NY.
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FOPA should protect him as long as it's unloaded and in the trunk, and he doesn't stop in the City limits. If he stops to visit any sites in Chicago, he'd be arrested if they found the handgun.

They are the worst in the nation.
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I don't think so. We're bad, but not the worst. Once you have a FOID, you can buy all the guns you want, of any type except NFA weapons. No mag limits, no "assault" bans, no per-month limits, no registration. Just have a 3 day wait for handguns and 24 hours for long guns. Try buying a pistol in NY or NJ and tell me we're worse than them. My chief complaint is that we can't carry at all. Period.
 
I don't think so. We're bad, but not the worst.
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IL is still one of the worst in the nation. Sure you can have more types, but you have to annualy get permission to continue to be a legal gun owner or even possess or purchase ammunition.
It might be a minor incovenience to renew, but anyplace that your right to even own expires and turns you into a serious criminal is a really bad place.

There is other aspects that rank it one of the worst in my opinion on RKBA and self defense. I don't want to go over it all though and get too off topic.
 
From my understanding it doesn't matter in NY state. Licensing and registration of handguns and that means non-residents may not possess. The only way you're going to get around that is if you're just traveling through the state, have a gun show you're going to, or a match. If it's the latter two, you'll need to furnish proof.
 
coosbaycreep said:
Some of the states/cities I'll be visiting that I know have more restrictive gun laws than the great state or Oregon: CA, NV, MD, Chicago, D.C., VA, NJ, NY, etc. I'll be in every state on the east coast, and will probably drive through the southern U.S. on the way back.

I know CA and most of the Northeast has crappy gun laws, but I don't know how bad they are, and what kind of gun I can carry, if any at all.
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Since you acknowledge that you're not up to speed on legal jargon, here's your chance to start. What do you mean by "carry" in the above quote? In most of the northeast states mentioned you cannot "carry" (meaning wear on your person or have on your person in your clothing) any sort of handgun. If you are referring to having the firearm(s) in the trunk of your vehicle, unloaded and cased, then that's "transport," not "carry." In most of the northeast states you can't do that without a permit, either, but it's prohibited in fewer states than those prohibiting carry.

Then there are states that allow open carry without a permit but not concealed carry, such as Pennsylvania (except Philadelphia) and Ohio, for example.

You also need to be clear about your itinerary. There is Federal statute (the Firearms Owners Protection Act, or FOPA) that allows you to "transport" unloaded firearms through unfriendly states, as long as your possession is legal where the trip starts and will be legal where the trip will end. However, the practical application of this law has not been tested much in court, so it's best to view it strictly and literally. Driving through a state and stopping only at turnpike rest areas for gas and snacks should be okay. Getting off the highway, driving 75 miles off the direct route and spending half a day sightseeing would probably rate that state as a "to" rather than "through, and thus the FOPA wouldn't help you there.
 
Hey, leave your guns at home if you travel in the Northeast and you want to obey the law.

My daughter lives in Connecticut and when I visit her I am a lawbreaker in several states I must drive through.

The only way for me to get from here to her (legally) is to leave my weapons at home, and I do not do that.

Firearms owners have absolutely no rights in the Northeast.
 
Wow.....that's incredibly depressing, but thanks for all the great info. I knew some states and cities had some seriously messed up gun laws, but I didn't know they were THAT bad.

I guess I'll be leaving ALL of my guns at home in Oregon, as the main point of the trip is to finish seeing the last states in the lower 48 that I haven't seen yet, so it wouldn't be very wise of me to take one along and try and tell a cop that I'm just "passing through", since I'll probably spend a considerable amount of time sight seeing in some of these anti-gun places.

You folks wouldn't happen to know if I could get away with taking bear spray or pepper spray with me on my trip, do you? I've still got a big container of bear spray left over from a trip to AK earlier this summer (I drove through Canada, and didn't want to risk going to jail for having a gun there either), and I'm just dying to get to try this stuff out on a vicious dog or something. (Not really, but the fact that I have $50 tied up in something that doesn't shoot bullets and hasn't gave me the opportunity to see what it's capable of is kinda frustrating). And since I pack a gun on most of my outdoor trips here in OR, the stuff will probably go bad from old age before I get a chance to use it.

May as well put it in the car if I won't get arrested for it I suppose. It certainly doesn't pack the knockdown or lethality of 00 buckshot, but it's still better than a sharp stick.....or being a victim.
 
You folks wouldn't happen to know if I could get away with taking bear spray or pepper spray with me on my trip, do you? I've still got a big container of bear spray left over from a trip to AK earlier this summer (I drove through Canada, and didn't want to risk going to jail for having a gun there either), and I'm just dying to get to try this stuff out on a vicious dog or something.
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Once again no, some states and jurisdictions have restrictions on pepperspray, once again many of the same places with restrictive gun laws (the theme is anti self defense.)
In Chicago for example pepperspray is not acceptable. In MA it requires a FID (firearm license) to possess.
Other states have severe restrictions on the amount of spray legal, with several having amounts over 2 ounces prohibited. Some have really tiny amounts less than even a fraction of an ounce like HI and NJ.
Others have restrictions on the amount of OC allowed in the spray.
Generaly something purchased for use against a bear will be both over the legal allowed size and too strong for legal use or anticipated use for self defense against a person in the restrictive states. Even some states favorable to gun rights have limits to small quantities of spray.

So once again no that is not something that will be legal in all destinations.
 
No hand guns by you (or me) in DC. Heller is having enough trouble and he has the SCOTUS on his side.

Now that I think about it Id say NO guns by us in DC.
 
Alrighty then.

Guns are out. Pepper spray/bear spray are out.

How's about a really, really sharp stick?

If I can't defend myself with a gun, and I can't defend myself with a big can of taco seasoning (bear spray), can I at least keep a pointy stick in my car?

How about a baseball bat with nails in it?

A rabbid attack squirrel maybe? There's a few squirrels near our house, and lately I've been thinking about trying to win their "hearts and minds" with bread crumbs and chocolate chip cookies. Then, after I have their unwavering love and devotion, I will train them to be my evil minions, and they will protect me wherever I go.

In all seriousness though, I honestly had no idea just how unconstitutional some state's laws are. I'm actually ashamed of myself for being so complacement and not joining the NRA, or doing other stuff to preserve our right to defend ourselves in a reasonable manner and bear arms.

I turned down a good paying job in CA right after the military, partly because of the gun laws, and now I couldn't imagine living anywhere that wouldn't allow me to own something that should be legal for all Americans to own in the first place.

I know politics are strictly prohibited on THR, so I'll end my rant now.

Thanks for all the super info though. I almost considered just loading up the shotgun or something and going for it anyway, but I'd rather take my chances at being a defenseless victim than getting locked up by the ATF for some sort of "weapons charge".
 
4 cell mag light will do just fine. Hit someone with that, lights out. Useful as a light too, and doesn't show any intent like some sort of bat or sharp stick would....hehehe.

jeepmor
 
?

In many of the states mentioned is there any leeway given to C&R FFL holders who have a gun with them that was purchased with the C&R and all paperwork is with the gun?
 
great thread for me im gonna leave in june then im driving to washigton state im only takeing my .30-06 so i dont see many problems coming up aslong as its not loaded and riding shotgun(pun kinda intended but not really)
 
California native

In CA - once you get the gun there - it is legal to have one loaded for defense in a motel/hotel room, campsite or RV, since these are extensions of one's home. In one's home there is no "duty to retreat" or anything of that sort, which may be surprising to some.
 
You are getting some good legal advice here.

While I am not suggesting that you break the law, here is what I would do.

On the passenger seat I would put an open brief case with my hipoint in it. If the flashing lights appear in the rear view, without moving my body so that anyone can what I am doing, close and lock it.

Legally the police have to have a warrant to go into such a locked area as it is not "on or about" your person. (as the contents are not easily accessed, it is not a threat to the officer)

Best of luck

Guillermo
 
My daughter lives in Connecticut and when I visit her I am a lawbreaker in several states I must drive through.

The only way for me to get from here to her (legally) is to leave my weapons at home, and I do not do that.
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As long as the guns are unloaded and in a locked case in the trunk, and are legal at your origination and destination, you are protected by Federal law. If your destination were MA instead of CT, you'd be illegal without a MA LTC, though.
 
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