rcmodel
Member in memoriam
One thing you might check is the strain screw in the front grip strap.
Take the stocks off, and see if the flat mainspring is in place and the strain screw is tighten all the way.
rcmodel
Problem with a SW model 19
- Thread starter 747trace
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Take the stocks off, and see if the flat mainspring is in place and the strain screw is tighten all the way.
rcmodel
Problem with the S&W Model 19
As I stated earlier the hammer is locked in the down position and the cyclinder will not open when the cyclinder latch is pushed.
Facts:
The gun was scrubbed clean including under the star
The gun had been fired less than 80 rounds prior to lock-up
The ejector rod was loose and was hand tighten before firing began.
All the empty case were ejected from the cyclinder. The cyclinder was closed. When I tried to reopen the cyclinder to reload the cyclinder was locked closed.
I suspect the ejector rod may have loosen and may prevent the cyclinder from opening. If that is the case then if I hit the cyclinder on the right side with a non marring hammer while pushing forward on the release button will it damage the ejector rod or other pins or timing mechanisms on the inside?
As I stated earlier the hammer is locked in the down position and the cyclinder will not open when the cyclinder latch is pushed.
Facts:
The gun was scrubbed clean including under the star
The gun had been fired less than 80 rounds prior to lock-up
The ejector rod was loose and was hand tighten before firing began.
All the empty case were ejected from the cyclinder. The cyclinder was closed. When I tried to reopen the cyclinder to reload the cyclinder was locked closed.
I suspect the ejector rod may have loosen and may prevent the cyclinder from opening. If that is the case then if I hit the cyclinder on the right side with a non marring hammer while pushing forward on the release button will it damage the ejector rod or other pins or timing mechanisms on the inside?
oneounceload
member
I just had my dad's 1952 lockup at the range - same scenario - I wiggled the cylinder a little bit as I tried and retried to open the latch - after a few tries it worked itself loose - bit of lead buildup was what it was....was able to blow out the gunk and fire some more before I put it away.....
If that doesn't work, call S&W and ask them for advice
If that doesn't work, call S&W and ask them for advice
revolverforums
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 105
oneounceload are you saying the lead bridged the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone and locked the gun up? Just trying to figure this one out.
krs
Member
747,
Hmm, did you take apart and reassemble the ejector/cylinder assembly for cleaning?
It probably won't damage it but it's sometimes one of the "feel" kind of things that can make the difference. There are just the two contact points front and rear at play, and you take the rear one out of play by pushing it up to flush with the recoil face with the thumbpiece. Does it seem to be moving the right amount?
Can you use a small lever, a screwdriver blade of about the size used to tighten a pair of glasses, to lever the pin that is inside the shroud housing at the forward end of the ejector rod? If there's room to push the pin forward enough to get it free of the ejector housing you might get it open without whacking. This makes for an easy way to put a scratch in your pistol though so do it with care.
If there's damage to the front end of the housing for the centerpin it can sometimes make for a "berm" that pushing the thumbpiece doesn't get the centerpin high enough to clear. These are small movements and it's surprising how little it takes to jam the cylinder closed. (I just had to turn that housing end down .015" and cut a new bevel on my no dash 2 1/2" Model 66, the stainless equivelant of a model 19, to get it so the cylinder would open easily while still locking firmly when closed).
If you do get it open don't close it again unless you're sure that you know what the problem was and that it's fixed.
The change of thread direction was made in 1959 for pretty much all models. The Model 19 began production in 1955 but you said you bought this one new yourself in the 1970's so there shouldn't be any question of which way yours threads - it has lefthand threading, some people might say it's backwards
Hmm, did you take apart and reassemble the ejector/cylinder assembly for cleaning?
It probably won't damage it but it's sometimes one of the "feel" kind of things that can make the difference. There are just the two contact points front and rear at play, and you take the rear one out of play by pushing it up to flush with the recoil face with the thumbpiece. Does it seem to be moving the right amount?
Can you use a small lever, a screwdriver blade of about the size used to tighten a pair of glasses, to lever the pin that is inside the shroud housing at the forward end of the ejector rod? If there's room to push the pin forward enough to get it free of the ejector housing you might get it open without whacking. This makes for an easy way to put a scratch in your pistol though so do it with care.
If there's damage to the front end of the housing for the centerpin it can sometimes make for a "berm" that pushing the thumbpiece doesn't get the centerpin high enough to clear. These are small movements and it's surprising how little it takes to jam the cylinder closed. (I just had to turn that housing end down .015" and cut a new bevel on my no dash 2 1/2" Model 66, the stainless equivelant of a model 19, to get it so the cylinder would open easily while still locking firmly when closed).
If you do get it open don't close it again unless you're sure that you know what the problem was and that it's fixed.
The change of thread direction was made in 1959 for pretty much all models. The Model 19 began production in 1955 but you said you bought this one new yourself in the 1970's so there shouldn't be any question of which way yours threads - it has lefthand threading, some people might say it's backwards
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
If the ejector rod loosened, do not try to beat the cylinder open.
You would very likely just bend the ejector rod.
If the hammer will move, block it back just far enough to release the locking bolt so the cylinder will turn back and forth as far as the hand & ratchet will allow.
Then hold the ejector rod, and turn the cylinder a little to tighten it slightly.
Keep doing that until you get it screwed back in far enough to get it to open.
If it's loose, you need to take the crane & cylinder out.
Degrease the threads inside & out with alcohol.
After that dries, put one small drop of BLUE Lock-Tight on the threads and reassemble.
Use several wraps of black electrical tape on the rod to protect it and tighten with pliers.
Let the Lock-Tight cure overnight before using the gun again.
If the hammer is locked up all the way foreward:
Check the strain screw & mainspring as I said in post #26.
If all is well there, you have a bigger problem. But I'm not sure what.
rcmodel
You would very likely just bend the ejector rod.
If the hammer will move, block it back just far enough to release the locking bolt so the cylinder will turn back and forth as far as the hand & ratchet will allow.
Then hold the ejector rod, and turn the cylinder a little to tighten it slightly.
Keep doing that until you get it screwed back in far enough to get it to open.
If it's loose, you need to take the crane & cylinder out.
Degrease the threads inside & out with alcohol.
After that dries, put one small drop of BLUE Lock-Tight on the threads and reassemble.
Use several wraps of black electrical tape on the rod to protect it and tighten with pliers.
Let the Lock-Tight cure overnight before using the gun again.
If the hammer is locked up all the way foreward:
Check the strain screw & mainspring as I said in post #26.
If all is well there, you have a bigger problem. But I'm not sure what.
rcmodel
Claude Clay
Member
rather sounds like it is broke
unless you are able to take it apart and know what is wrong when you see it; it may be best [for the gun] if you bring or send it to a specialist.
unless you are able to take it apart and know what is wrong when you see it; it may be best [for the gun] if you bring or send it to a specialist.
BADUNAME37
Member
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- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,434
I had a brand new
642 ejector rod bind up so I could not cock the gun. Then I could not open the cylinder. When I finally DID open the cylinder, the rod assembly flew out (in the woods, no less).
Come to find out the (backwards) threads on the rod assembly were STRIPPED!
I sent the brand new gun back to S&W and they had it a bit over 6 weeks.
While they had it, I asked if they could "smooth the action and trigger."
Yes, they can at $75.00 + $14 shipping back to me.
Go ahead and please do it.
Got it back, GOOD AS NEW! The action is so smooth, and the trigger pull is completely even all the way through the full length of pull, for all cylinder holes!
NOW I'm HAPPY!
642 ejector rod bind up so I could not cock the gun. Then I could not open the cylinder. When I finally DID open the cylinder, the rod assembly flew out (in the woods, no less).
Come to find out the (backwards) threads on the rod assembly were STRIPPED!
I sent the brand new gun back to S&W and they had it a bit over 6 weeks.
While they had it, I asked if they could "smooth the action and trigger." Yes, they can at $75.00 + $14 shipping back to me.
Go ahead and please do it.
Got it back, GOOD AS NEW!
The action is so smooth, and the trigger pull is completely even all the way through the full length of pull, for all cylinder holes! NOW I'm HAPPY!
Master Blaster
Member
Wow some of the worst advice I have ever read is being dispensed here.
Never beat open a smith revolver cylinder with anything unless you want to bend the center pin and damage your gun. Never take the side plate off unless you know how to do it right, and how to put the gun back together.
Get the Kuhnhausen shop manual and read it before you take a screw driver to a Smith, or you will cost yourself an expensive repair.
Most likely the ejector rod has come unscrewed, enough to tie up the gun.
The reason you can't open it is because the cylinder latch can't push the center pin far enough forward to disengage the front spring detent that locks the front of the ejector rod. Lay the gun on a soft towel on its side, Push the cylinder release forward, and use a paper clip to push the front spring loaded pin (locks the front of the ejector rod at the barrel underlug)forward. The cylinder will now open so you can unload the gun if its still loaded.
I would then take it to a gunsmith or get a copy of and read the aforemention shop manual if you want to fix it yourself.
If you follow RC model's advice please put at least two empty cases in the cylinder becore you turn the rod with pliers or you run the risk of bending or breaking the star alignment pins (two little metal pins that align the ejector star with the cylinder).
Never beat open a smith revolver cylinder with anything unless you want to bend the center pin and damage your gun. Never take the side plate off unless you know how to do it right, and how to put the gun back together.
Get the Kuhnhausen shop manual and read it before you take a screw driver to a Smith, or you will cost yourself an expensive repair.
Most likely the ejector rod has come unscrewed, enough to tie up the gun.
The reason you can't open it is because the cylinder latch can't push the center pin far enough forward to disengage the front spring detent that locks the front of the ejector rod. Lay the gun on a soft towel on its side, Push the cylinder release forward, and use a paper clip to push the front spring loaded pin (locks the front of the ejector rod at the barrel underlug)forward. The cylinder will now open so you can unload the gun if its still loaded.
I would then take it to a gunsmith or get a copy of and read the aforemention shop manual if you want to fix it yourself.
If you follow RC model's advice please put at least two empty cases in the cylinder becore you turn the rod with pliers or you run the risk of bending or breaking the star alignment pins (two little metal pins that align the ejector star with the cylinder).
BADUNAME37
Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,434
Well, I'm truly surprised. rcmodel usually has the right answer.
Added later:
rcmodel DID have the right answer after all. The rod is keyed!
Added later:
rcmodel DID have the right answer after all. The rod is keyed!
Last edited:
krs
Member
A flat blade will work much better than a paper clip, as someone suggested in post #30; the pistol is unloaded by the owner's statement, and before rcmodel would 'bend the two little pins that align the ejector star' he'd have to exert sufficient force to strip away the keyway that locks the ejector along with those testy pins from turning over the length of the cylinder, a force that no doubt would first turn his electrical tape around on the ejector housing and leave both they key and pins as they were. Now, if vicegrips were used a different scenario would ensue but that was not advised as a method..........yet.
revolverforums
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 105
Master Blaster said:
Yea it doesn't matter that the entire shaft is keyed to the cylinder.
Oh and to protect the extractor rod when you tighten it an old leather belt is one of the best things I have found to hold it tight and not damage anything.Edit: I see KRS beat me to it with the keyed shaft.
Last edited:
The Bushmaster
Member
No wonder I use jacketed or plated bullets...Have never had any of my 4 S&Ws lock up. And I have three Mod 10s and one Mod 19...In fact none of my S&Ws have ever malfunctioned and i beat the snot out of that mod 19. How can anything fall inside anyway. The clock works are pretty well sealed up...
machinisttx
Member
Sir, I strongly suggest ordering Jerry Kuhnhausen's "The S&W Revolver" shop manual from Brownells. It has step by step instructions for removing the sideplate, as well as illustrations. If I were closer to you, I'd offer to come have a look at it.
I can't think of anything inside the lockwork that would cause the hammer to lock in the down position.
I can't think of anything inside the lockwork that would cause the hammer to lock in the down position.
Master Blaster
Member
Whew I'm glad you guys set me straight on that one, apparently the two little pins were put there by S&W as a decoration, and it wont matter if you bend or break them. So forget what I said about the cases.
Apparently you dont need Kunhausen's book either because he advises this mistaken procedure as well.
Claude Clay
Member
Master B-- great thoughts. i can play with my ever over used dermal and grind off them pesky pips in a shower of sparks. i can toss my printed stuff to make room on the shelves for the bucket of steam i use as an all purpose cleaner and to store my assorted lengths of anti-lock-up lumber whackers.
moving into the new year with some great ideas here.... :rolleye
why am i reminded of the tech support joke re mailing the stuff back with a note.....:banghead:
747--please post how this ends.
moving into the new year with some great ideas here.... :rolleye
why am i reminded of the tech support joke re mailing the stuff back with a note.....:banghead:
747--please post how this ends.
krs
Member
Oh, then you'll be happy to hear that you're prescious "Dermal" (?) bits will last much longer because Smith & Wesson saved you the trouble of grinding your pips by redesigning the assembly in updated replacement parts so as to eliminate pips from your pervue, clay.
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