Overly hyped and overly redundant cartridges

Overly redundant-
.308 Marlin-not much more than a .307 Winchester, just 20+/- years younger

not sure about a pistol cartridge for this category

Overly Hyped-
Any Short Magnum-less ballistics than standard mags/shorter action=less weight=more recoil

.327 Fed Mag-though it may be good for SD, balistically it is nowhere near the .357 Mag like advertised

Wyman

Or do you mean other contemporary hangun chamberings aren't any better than the 45acp?

The 45acp was around way before the contemporary chamberings you speak of and is what they are measured by. Am I wrong?

Or do you mean other contemporary hangun chamberings aren't any better than the 45acp?

Click to expand...

Thats the way I would look at it.
I think the "short magnums" are seriously over hyped.
They dont do anything better than other rounds... other than being shorter.


Jim

I'd list the .45 GAP long before I'd ever consider listing the .45 ACP.

All the short,fat,super-wonder-ultra mags. What's the point?

When the 45ACP came outit stood head and shoulder above its contemporaries; 30 Luger, 30 Mauser, 9MM luger, 9mm Bergmann-Bayard.

Yes the 9mm luger predates the .45acp by several years, and with modern bullets the playing field has been leveled for quite some time.

Click to expand...

If you're thinking "several years" is 3 years, and it was way back in the early 1900's for both of them, you're point is hardly worth mentioning to argue your case.

If the 9mm Luger came out first, why did it take approx. 80 years to finally start catching up with the .45ACP? Also, if you want to use modern bullets in a 9mm to compare .45ACP, then you need to include modern bullets for the .45ACP, too.

There's some cartridges out there that really doesn't have a measureable advantage over the other. However, I say it doesn't matter. I think the more the merrier. I view it as being fun to experiment with reloads on any cartridge made.

Kinda like the days when there were only 3 channels on TV. When the president's on for a State of the Union Address, we're all sunk. Today, we have hundreds available. Now when he's on, I surf right on over to History International.

So nice to have choices....

Fella's;

Rifle redundant: Anything that's "short action". Over-hyped rifle cartridges: "short magnums".

Handgun redundant: .45 GAP.
Handgun over-hyped: .454 Casull. It's a good cartridge, just over-hyped. You do not automatically get a halo when you own one.

900F

Over hyped

handgun/ .45 acp it's not any better at what it does than other contemporary autoloading handgun chambering

Click to expand...

The 9mm parabellum was introduced in 1902.
The 45acp was introduced in 1904.

I see the 45acp as the standard by which all defensive hangun rounds are measured. It greatly out performs the 9mm in FMJ performance; as well as any other bullet design I can think of. The best that can be said for the 9mm is that it shoots flatter, recoils less, and can fit more rounds into the same volume of a magazine.

I don't think that the 45acp is over hyped.
Unless someone is espousing that it can always make a one shot stop, take off someone's arm, kicks like a mule . . .

It is of large diameter so that even when it does not have a expanding bullet, it still has a respectable crush zone. It is sufficiently powerful for a defensive round. It has more accuracy potential than I can always make it produce.

Remember that expanding bullets do not always expand. Sometimes something plugs the nose cavity preventing the expansion like clothing, sheetrock or something else.

Are there better rounds?
I prefer the 10mm, but that is personal preference.

Sorry if I got off topic.

Wow, I am suprised that nobody has mentioned the 5.7x28

Wow, I am suprised that nobody has mentioned the 5.7x28

Click to expand...

I was about to. What is the use of a rifle caliber that is balistically inferior to the 5.56 and costs about 3 times as much?

Also 40 s&w. I know most of you disagree with me, but I think 40 s&w is about as pointless as it gets.

I was about to. What is the use of a rifle caliber that is balistically inferior to the 5.56 and costs about 3 times as much?

Click to expand...

in a firearm legal for the the general civilian of most countrys and with the 'nerfed' ammo FN sells? only a very flat trajectory and the basicly non existing recoil.

if you look at the 'real deal' as in p90 and proper ammo, it becomes a intresting concept.

Also 40 s&w. I know most of you disagree with me, but I think 40 s&w is about as pointless as it gets.

Click to expand...

Quite a few worse rounds, I think. The .40S&W is a pretty good 'compromise' round between 9mm luger and .45ACP. For whatever reason, it's got quite a following with police departments and individuals.

Compare that with the .45GAP, the 'short-mag' of handguns. A casing only slightly shorter than the ACP, with power and speed differences within margins of error.

I'll add in the .500S&W. Not so much overly redundant, but over-hyped.
.50BMG on the gun-grabber list.

short and fat might be more inherently accurate, but the degree is extremely miniscule, only those guys shooting off the bench with handtweaked guns and handtweaked loads would notice it....and they tend to not reach for the 300 WSM.

That being said, there are two gaps that the short magnums have filled: 270 WSM and 325 WSM

yes, anything the 300 WSM can do the 300 winmag can do, and vice versa.

However, we have been lacking a 'magnum' 270 and a 'magnum' 32 for a while.

No, you don't NEED a 270 magnum, the standard 270 winchester has been knocking em dead for years, but guns have never really been about NEED

I love them all. I have almost got myself talked into building my first belted magnum. I think a new custom or semi-custom 300 Magnum(thats H&H) I have a pile of new Remington brass marked 300 Magnum and no belted magnum feeds as slick as the 300 H&H. Plus I already have a 1917 Enfield action to receive a new barrel, I suppose I really should get modern with my calibers and cartridges and this would be a step in the right direction after all it came out less than a hundred years ago.

handgun/ .45 acp it's not any better at what it does than other contemporary autoloading handgun chambering

Click to expand...

As soon as I read this, I ran to the kitchen and got some popcorn started.



And for the record, I'm on board with the glut of short magnum cartridges. I do realize that there is an improvement in accuracy, but outside of folks shooting matches, does it really matter? And does it justify the increased cost and decreased availability of ammunition?

Mind you, my opinion on this subject is somewhat tainted by my experiences- when these cartridges came on the scene, I was working in a store that catered mostly to hunters. And there was always a certain class of person who would come in, the kind of person who thought he needed a .300 Win Mag to go shoot itty-bitty NC whitetail deer in the woods. These folks loved the short magnums. Now they could debate ballistics and smaller groups, all so they could go hit the woods three times a year and make 75-yard shots on a pretty small, thin-skinned animal.

Anyway, I digress.

As soon as I read this, I ran to the kitchen and got some popcorn

Click to expand...

misANTHrope, ain't that the truth. Kettle corn or lightly salted?

I'll open a can of worms. The venerable 7mm Magnum is the most overrated cartridge there ever was. Seriously, a man can do much better. No need for all the blast and the recoil if you are shooting a 7mm. I can take the flames, I have broad shoulders, so if you own one and love it, fine. I just think it is so overrated that it is one cartridge that I refuse to own. I've shot it, and I've compared its ballistics, but I will never own one. And never is a strong word.

I do agree though that the 6.8 spc is the most overhyped.

Isn't "overly redundant" redundant?

Actually, my deer rifle is a 7mm. However, I didn't pick the cartridge, it sort of picked me, by way of being a deal I couldn't turn down. Namely, I got a NIB Savage 110 for $75. I couldn't really turn that down when I was in the market for a deer slayer.

I would have preferred a .270 though. In any case, I have no real defense for the cartridge.

Isn't "overly redundant" redundant?

Click to expand...

In a way, no! Redundant refers to exceeding what is needed or superfluous, and we have cartridges that mimic marginally the results of other cartridges that mimic marginally the ballistics of some cartridges. And that is overly redundant.

Maybe a round that improves, but the marketing department deserves credit for all the rest.

All that said, innovation is good because every once in a while an indeed marvel is introduced.

Anything other than the .22 Hornet, 30-30, 30-06, and .45 acp. : )

Those 4 cover all the bases and even the 30-30 is somewhat redundant on that list but leverguns in 30-06 are hard to come by.

ETA: After more thought I think anything other than the .257 Roberts and .45 ACP.

Personally, I like the .41 mag. It's got a nice flat trajectory, at least in my experience. The only problem with it is availability and cost of ammo in the east. For some reason I saw a lot more of them out west. Of course that was years ago, I've heard you can't walk in down town Colorado Springs with your six shooter on your hip without getting hassled these days. Times change.

Every caliber you come up with you'll find someone who swears by it, and someone else who swears at it. if you own it, and you can hit your target, it's a good caliber.