Who's at fault here?

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whats irrelevant?

your career?
Yes. Unless my career would have the power to arrest, it is irrelvant.
the paul?
yes. Unless this Paul is the actual actor, he is irrelvant.
the fact our hero behaved in a most foolish way not once but 3 times?
yes, irrelevant. Foolish does not mean illegal

the fact the young hero wasn't charged with obstruction?

Actually, this part MIGHT be relevant. It might well indicate that his initial action was in fact NOT obstruction.
 
i missed out on your high risk career or is it need to know only? or perhaps a work in progress....

In plain english, I do NOT have a high risk career. However, that is irrelevant. How would being a taxi driver in NYC be relevant?
 
Wow.OK,since no one asked,here's my take .'Our hero' didn't 'obstuct' anything by rideing by on his bike,no matter what he said.
but he was asking for trouble,and got it.My verdict?A non-fatal case of the stupids.
 
In plain english, I do NOT have a high risk career. However, that is irrelevant. How would being a taxi driver in NYC be relevant?
Because then you would have what you and rogerjames are lacking.

PERSPECTIVE.
 
i missed out on your high risk career or is it need to know only? or perhaps a work in progress....

I believe firefighter, crab fisherman, convenience store clerk, all have higher risk and mortality rate than LEO.

I don't think you'd be arrested if you buzzed by on a jet ski and yelled "let that crab go"!
 
i thooght his initial act was to holler which brought attention to his no lights . he then struck a bold blow for freedom by attempting to run.after this second fail he was found to be carrying his gun in a manner other than legal. he is in truth a martyr! especially if this costs him his right to carry. its always imortant to make your cause look good like that. he does have a cause... right?
 
Because then you would have what you and rogerjames are lacking.

PERSPECTIVE.

I understand your argument, and even mentioned it before. I reject it.

I reject the notion that police should be a self-governing body, and only police can get a say on the constrution or interpretation of a law in any degree connected with law enforcement duties.

Clearly that isn't how our system works, but clearly that is how many LEOs believe it should work.

I will also note again that the arguments FOR allowing police 'rough up' a suspect, search without probable cause, not bother with informing a person of their rights, or raw racial profiling* ALL have been defended by LEOs with the argument 'you aren't a cop so you cannot understand'


*I say raw racial profile to distinguish against profiling where race is one of a handful of features and behaviors that collectively allow the officer to reach a conclusion.
 
The guy broke the law. He interfered with an arrest, evaded his own arrest, and was carrying a gun illegally. The police didn't do anything wrong and this guy did. What about that am I wrong about. Specifically, please.

Do you have to be a cat to know they give birth to kittens?

No, but you might have to be a cat to know what it is like to give birth to kittens.
 
i thooght his initial act was to holler
Yes, it is to this act I am referring to. My stance is that loud verbal communication is NOT obstruction of police duty, and not a crime.

Again, it would have been no different if he had been a she with a very shapely figure and low cut shirt....riding with no headlight.

his no lights. he then struck a bold blow for freedom by attempting to run.after this second fail
I assume you mean the first fail was no light. You and I are both in agreement that it was against the law.
His second fail was running from the police. You and I both are in agreement that was also against the law.

As you note 3 actions and 2 fails, this means that you are admitting that the shout was not a fail. (unless you are attempting to state that the shout was a fail, but the no light was okay)

he was found to be carrying his gun in a manner other than legal.

I reject the concept that a firearm must be 100% concealed 100% of the time to be legal as far as concealed carry is concerned.

he is in truth a martyr! especially if this costs him his right to carry. its always imortant to make your cause look good like that. he does have a cause... right?

I would have wished he hadn't run. That definately makes the cause look bad. However, as others have said, there are enough regulations that it is very easy for an honest, well meaning person to accidentally trip over one.

I am confident if the rider did have a light, some other infraction would have been found.
 
So could you arrest a person for walking by with a really short skirt while the officer is doing his duties?

I'm not a Police Officer I'm a medical transcriptionist ( a well paid but definetely not high risk occupation) so I wouldn't arrest anyone.

Can you not see the difference between actively interjecting your self into a potentially volatile situation and simply being in the area imodestly dressed?

As was pointed out earlier we don't know who the five were. We don't know why they were stopped. And we don't know that one of them wasn't waiting for the Officer to glance away for just a split second so he could draw a gun and open fire. And certainly the bicyclist didn't know either.

I am as much a civil libertarian as you profess to be but I'm also aware that liberty must be coupled with responsibility and self-restraint.

Question; you're obviously willing to bet the Officer's life on freedom of speech, would you be willing to bet your's?
 
No, but you might have to be a cat to know what it is like to give birth to kittens.

your comparison is flawed. Are we to be islands of our own experience only, or can we use empathy and forethought to project and have some idea of what others have gone through. If that is your stance, fine, but it isn't how our entire system works.
 
As was pointed out earlier we don't know who the five were. We don't know why they were stopped. And we don't know that one of them wasn't waiting for the Officer to glance away for just a split second so he could draw a gun and open fire. And certainly the bicyclist didn't know either.

Same thing with the low cut dress. It is up to the officer to stay focused, not for everyone around him to shelter him from distraction.
 
Again, it would have been no different if he had been a she with a very shapely figure and low cut shirt....riding with no headlight.
The guy hollering was actively interfering with the arrest. Walking by in a short skirt is passively interfering, because it is the officer's fault for being distracted, and the girl didn't do anything to interfere. In this case, the guy did do something to interfere. He hollered and distracted the officers, intentionally involving himself in the arrest.
 
your comparison is flawed. Are we to be islands of our own experience only, or can we use empathy and forethought to project and have some idea of what others have gone through. If that is your stance, fine, but it isn't how our entire system works.
Empathy is not equal to perspective.

Same thing with the low cut dress. It is up to the officer to stay focused, not for everyone around him to shelter him from distraction.
The guy physically involved himself. walking by in a short skirt does not volunteer yourself to the situation, it is the officer who distracts himself by looking. Hollering does volunteer yourself to the situation, because YOU made the choice to involve yourself.
 
reject the concept that a firearm must be 100% concealed 100% of the time to be legal as far as concealed carry is concerned.

Reject all you wish, carrying a handgun in an open mesh pocket doesn't fit the parameters of concealed carry for Texas
 
My take...

When an officer is on the roadside (or anywhere) doing their job, it isnt a time for games. Games can get someone hurt, or worse. Obviously, if several officers had several individuals detained there, it was a serious matter. The cyclist rides by and distracts the officers with his comment, which had no business making... one of the suspects grabs a gun or strikes one of the officers, and now you have a less than desirable situation, all because the cyclist had to inject his two pennies. That being said...

1) The cyclist had no business yelling anything to the officers OR the suspects. As it was mentioned several times, if he had just kept to himself, he would have gone home that night.

1-a) No, that is not a violation of free speech. Distracting, harassing, or otherwise interfering with an officer while he is performing his job (as they obviously were from the original poster's decription) is called obstruction, and generally a misdemeanor, punishable by jail time, at least in my state. It is dangerous to the suspects, the officers and possibly any bystandards including the cyclist; it has nothing to do with free speech. Period.

2) If one of the officers wanted to stop the cyclist to speak with him in regards to the above referenced obstruction offense that he had just committed, the fact that the headlamp on his bike was not illuminated was not pertinant. They already had reason to stop the cyclist, if nothing else to issue him a courtiousy notice to refrain from distracting officers during the course of their duties, the reasons why and the potential penalties involved.

3) When they activated their lights and sirens, that is a clear and well known indicator to stop your vehicle (bicycle, car, bus, horse, train, plane, boat or legs...) a failure to do so is called fleeing, yet another misdemeanor punishable by jail time in this, and most other states. It is a serious offense.

4) As far as the Glock was concerned, it definatly would have been confiscated until his release for officer safety reasons-that is not a second amendment violation, though I dont think I would have charged him with the firearms violation. If he possessed a concealed carry permit, that would have been enough for me. He would have gotten his firearm back when he was released. However, as the legal, authorized carrier of a concealed lethal weapon, I feel that he should have demonstrated a little more maturity and responsibility for his actions.

Though as with all stories, Im sure some of the facts were omitted, or skewed (..not necessarily on purpose..) to one degree or another, so it is hard to say if indeed a firearms violation was committed or not.. Im simply taking the story at face value.

...just my take.
 
That's enough before someone gets banned for name calling ........ I'm not going to take the time now to edit your posts, those of you who broke the rules and called each other names can save the staff the trouble and edit your own. You guys know better then that. Clean up your mess and this one is over.
 
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